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Bumble View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS500 ...
    Posted: 30 Nov 05 at 8:02am
Like wise, I don't know where kids get the money these days. When I was younger the youth classes choice was whatever was cheap. Now they seem to be wrestleing with choices I couldn't afford now.
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Bumble View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 05 at 8:04am
Oh, I forgot to say......Bahh, Humbug!
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 05 at 8:41am

Originally posted by Bumble

Like wise, I don't know where kids get the money these days.

See early sections of the thread on levels of consumer debt.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote MainlySwimming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 05 at 8:47am

Getting back on subject slighty....has anyone actually seen the RS500 in the flesh?  One of the links above suggested it has been around Hayling Island Sailing Club and will be available to sail there on 10th Dec.

Also - why do we think the introduction of this boat has caused such a debate, when the Xenon, and even the Vago, seem to have arrived much more quietly.. ??

Finally - how much of the concern expressed above stem from the photos & reports which don't look very exciting...would people respond differently if it was going to have a big, fully adjustable, rig and a <1000 yardstick and so be more differentiated from Vago / V3000?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 05 at 9:44am

damp_freddie - FD a displacement boat upwind? If you fancy a ride in one sometime, let me know, then we can discuss it in the bar afterwards. You can't seriously believe an 800 is quicker upwind? Downwind, I'll admit it's a different matter, we're slugs on crutches compared with any twin-wire assy, but that wasn't the point I was making.

My concern isn't with the specifics of the new RS blandmobile, and I agree that the 800 is a cracking boat, but what happens to it when RS move on? Class dies, boats become almost worthless, and it really doesn't do anything for dinghy sailing as a whole. Not RS's fault specifically, but it is a problem.

Neil

No FD? No Comment!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 05 at 9:51am
Going back on price.....

You can get a reasonable Laser/Fireball pretty much whatever you like for around £500 if you are prepared to shop round and do a little bit of work on it.

The older Lasers are still competitive at club level (I know I owned 75265 for a fair while and there it still 36177 raced regularly at the club). Just make sure they have reasonable sails and that the hull is not a wreck when you buy them.

Older Fireballs are different, they are a slightly different hull shape to the modern Winders but you can still have an immense amount of fun at club level in them, and a well sailed 'narrow' 'ball will still be comeptitve against and new 'wide' 'ball at club level on flat water (waves are a different proposition).

I believe the Osprey is similar, you can find some well sailed older boats that regularly beat the newer boats.

Also at my club we have both class racing and an 'all in'. If you want class racing then it is Solo, Laser or Phantom for singlehanding (we have one of the biggest Phantom fleets in the country apparently) and Enterprise for double handers. After that anything that is momnohull with a PY slower than 950 goes. It is quite telling though that the 'new' RS style classes have not been a big hit and traditional symetrical boats still outnumber them (we have 2 RS2's and a Sport 14 on assy and 4 FB's, 2 Scorps and a couple of GP14's to my knowledge).

We are more concerned that we don't become a all single handed club rather than the onslaught of 'new classes'....

Anyone else out there with the same concerns?

Paul

PS on the boats in your sailing lifetime I am on my 3rd boat and have been sailing for 8 years.
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 05 at 11:07am

Originally posted by NeilP

.... but what happens to it when RS move on? Class dies, boats become almost worthless......

I think RS have a very good record of staying with the classes they've designed as there is not one which they've stopped building. Certainly they are one of the best in the SMOD world and they are still happily building 600 and 300's when there is demand.

The one obvious exception was the B14 which also stands out as being the one boat which was not their own design.  I'm not sure of the full history here, but I can easily imagine that the licensing model didn't fit with their business strategy.  The class seems to be thriving in any case.

Ian

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 05 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Ian29937

Originally posted by NeilP

.... but what happens to it when RS move on? Class dies, boats become almost worthless......

I think RS have a very good record of staying with the classes they've designed as there is not one which they've stopped building. Certainly they are one of the best in the SMOD world and they are still happily building 600 and 300's when there is demand.

The one obvious exception was the B14 which also stands out as being the one boat which was not their own design.  I'm not sure of the full history here, but I can easily imagine that the licensing model didn't fit with their business strategy.  The class seems to be thriving in any case.

Ian

RS700 GBR912

Ian,

RS have faired better than Topper and Laser in this area but I was surprised at Excel last year that they didn't bother to put a 3 or a 6 on the stand.

I personally feel that that says somthing given that there was planty of floor space ...

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Shingle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 05 at 11:40am

I dunno you go away for a few days away from the interweb and there is a massive thread to catch up on.  Firstly, apologies if I repeat anything, it’s very difficult to come in to these things late in the day. I believe LDC’s idea of a gap in the market is totally misplaced. The ISO/Buzz and 4000 sailors of the nineties who still want the adrenaline rush will not get it from this boat. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for two adults to weigh 150Kg which is over the top banding in the press release. Perhaps the sums didn’t add up, if you use a carbon rig and large sails you’ve still got the cost of an RS800 but without the perceived ego factor. In summary it’s not at all what I was hoping for, something that could nip at the heels of an 800 downwind in some conditions and not be too off the pace going up. LDC will make it a success via the owners association, to the detriment of which fleet RS or otherwise only time will tell. Maybe with a bigger rig and sail combo it would do it for me, would an RS505 fit in LDC's numbering strategy.

Drink Feck girls!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pijcornwall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 05 at 12:17pm
This has been an interesting debate which has stopped me in my tracks
re getting a "new" boat. I am an aging surfer with dodgy knees who got
into dinghy sailing a couple of years ago. I sail an old Solo and want
something which has more zip, planes easily and is manageable in
stronger winds. I want a single hiking dinghy which has a reasonable
freeboard for that intitial backside lift off the gunwhale. My options would
appear to be limited to either the Vareo or Vago. The Vago would appear
to be a bit heavy and no PY yet, and the Vareo sailors seem to need their
PY changed because the boat has not been fast enough, especially
upwind. Neither constructor has been positive about having a demo, and
RS told me at the Southampton show that (a) I would find out little about
the boat with a demo sail and (b) they had no demonstrator available. I
had fantastic help from the Supernova builders but unfortunately the
boat's side is too low for my knees to take.
I was just about to follow up a second hand Vareo when this topic started
and I have put my decision on hold. I want to enjoy the boat for its own
sake mainly but possibly to take part in "friendly" club racing. Are there
any other designs that would be more suited to my needs rather than
these SMOD above?
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