RS500 ...

I can see a gap from their point of view. For me there's no real nice modern asymettric boat in that weight bracket other than the 29er, and I while I think the stuff about having to be mega talnted to sail that is BS I can well understand why adults wouldn't want to sail in the class...

I'm sure the V3000 is a nice boat, but the hull shape is at best 1974 technology...

R&D wise the bethwaites do shedloads more than anyone else, but RS are probably best of the rest from what I can make out.

Edited by JimC

Originally posted by Guest#260 Originally posted by Iain C The SMOD manufacturers just don't seem interested in doing the R&D prior to product launch Maybe true for some SMODs but beware of sweeping statements like this as they discredit the valid points you make. The Musto underwent an extensive testing programme in the UK, Germany and Italy. This delayed  the launch by perhaps a year allowing RS to follow into the market with the 700 but I believe the testing programme was worth the effort. Owners opinions and sales of new boats and second hand prices verify that. Rick

Rick, you're absolutly right, I take that bit back.  What I should have said is that SOME new classes are rushed to market before perhaps before they should have been.  Apologies.

Originally posted by Iain C The SMOD manufacturers just don't seem interested in doing the R&D prior to product launch

Maybe true for some SMODs but beware of sweeping statements like this as they discredit the valid points you make.

The Musto underwent an extensive testing programme in the UK, Germany and Italy. This delayed  the launch by perhaps a year allowing RS to follow into the market with the 700 but I believe the testing programme was worth the effort. Owners opinions and sales of new boats and second hand prices verify that.

Rick

I've been waiting for this to happen, it was fairly obvious that RS were holding the 500 badge back for some reason, and we all know that a single wire 800 is just not an option, I've never seen one sailed like that.

I only rediscovered dinghy sailing about 6 years ago so I'm a bit out of touch with what was happening before that, but it seems to my untrained eye that the glut of new classes coming onto the market is just getting ridiculous and is counter productive for all concerned.  Take the L3000 for example, presumably for cost reasons Laser decide to take the ageing Laser 2 hull and make an assym boat out of it, then shortly afterwards decide there is no market for it, in the meantime Vandercraft decide with a bit of sorting there is a market for it, and produce what in my eyes is perhaps the boat it always should have been.

The SMOD manufacturers just don't seem interested in doing the R&D prior to product launch or more importantly let people develop their boats within certain criteria to prolong the life of the class and peoples investement.  Laser would have realised that the Vortex was dull without a kite and put one on from the beginning.  And before anyone says "that would have made it too lairy", you could always leave it in the chute...

Take the Fireball for example, it has now more or less evolved into a one design because everything about it really is that well developed and that good and when you do the maths with sail numbers less than 100 boats away from 15000 that means that more than one Fireball has been built every working day since 1963 when the thing was launched!  It's sailed by everyone from 14 stone gorillas front and back to all girl teams weighing half as much.  Surely that is much more of an "all things to all people" product?  In the meantime, if I want to sail an RS800 (and don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful boat that I really love) and take the mainsheet from the boom skiff style then I can't in case that gives me an advantage.  In the meantime, in the RS200 fleet, you don't even carry any lead to make sure the boats at least weight the same? Hello????

I do hope the 500 is a good boat and it fulfils the needs of these people sat on the shore with no suitable boat to sail, tempting as that second hand Spice is for £1500. 

I know times have moved on and the days of people buying plans and building their own boats out of ply to get sailing have by and large long gone, and it's now all about profit and fashion and lifestyle (take the Vago advert, bigger picture of attractive bikini clad girl than boat) but if the manufactures insist on ramming product after product down the throat of the buying public, they should not be too surprised if they come in for a bit of friendly flak on a forum like this.  I for one would be far more respectful if a manufacturer just said "we're launching this as a direct competitor for the XYZ class.  We've done the R&D and spoken to a lot of sailors and many people from beginners to racers have sailed it and we believe our product is better and will last far, far longer." 

And before I get branded as a SMOD burning leftie please read my review of the Xenon elsewhere on this forum.  Right, I've seen a gap in the market and I'm off to design a rotomoulded carbon tunnel hulled fully foiling symmetrical-kite family trapeze keel-skiff.

Further....Martin Wadhams and friends would do well to read the post titled 'bad time to sell?'. A more abstract title might be ' help! I can't sell my RS600 cos second hand versions arn't worth a bean anymore and I don't want it either'. Maybe one of the 'potential gaps within the market' is creating a new boat which has a resail (geddit) potential, without crippleing the customer a couple of years down the line. Or maybe the strategy is to make the boat out of paper..... then people will need to keep buying new ones for ever ....(worked for the laser).

Edited by Bumble