New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: RS500 ...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

RS500 ...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3031323334>
Author
49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1991
Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS500 ...
    Posted: 26 Nov 05 at 12:23am

There will always be the argument that there are too many classes, and initailly looking at the gap where the RS500 is meaning to fill, I thought that gap could have possibly been filled by the Buzz, Laser 3000, Fireball, Laser Vago and a few other boats that have been mentioned. Quite a number of responses to this thread have been arguing that we don't need another class as there are other boats that cater for the stated market. However, it might be best waiting to see what RS produce before writing off a boat, the RS500 could be a step forward from boats like the Buzz and 3000. If boat designers didn't produce new classes, we wouldn't see a move forward with technology within the marine industry and wouldn't have classes which a lot of us enjoy sailing. For instance, if designers looked at the High Performance market back in the early 90s, observed the Iso, Boss and Laser 5000 and decided that gap in the market had been filled, we wouldn't have the 49er, RS800 or Laser 4000.

Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
Helensburgh S.C
Boat Insurance from Noble Marine

Back to Top
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 05 at 11:06pm

It's a difficult situation.

I think we have all benefited from the innovation in the UK dinghy scene - RS have done some great things for the sport but the challenge is to achieve balance. Innovate when the demand is there and promote what you have to grow organnically when it is not. RS have no doubt enjoyed good finacial return each time they launch a new class as they get a rush of orders but it's the situation down the line that does not always look to healthy.

You can now get many failed SMODs for pennies which is great for those buying but for each of those happy buyers is  someone who has lost a lot of dough.

I think if the manufactures can achieve a balance then that is good; too many new classes is bad for our sport; but of course the market will decide in the end ...

Rick

Back to Top
Jamie View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 164
Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 05 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by turnturtle


Laser 3000 and its Vandercraft incarnation
Laser 2000 with trapeze
Laser 4000 (very competitive in the weight ranges you indicate)
Buzz/Iso
RS800- racks out, hiking version
29er- for youths, surely you don't have to be a god to sail it, there's plenty enjoying high peformance sailing at club level as well YSquad
59er- new modifications announced, I guess it will still cater for heavier sailors than the hubby/wife 150kg combo.

It isn't difficult to see where the gap in the market is really. It's nothing to do with sailing. They just want to have all the numbers in their catalogue.

RS100 coming soon?

I agree with Neil It is just a company trying to squeeze out other clases. Reducing fleet racing to being something only done at championships. Not good for the sport at all. 

 

Back to Top
Crammo View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jul 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6
Post Options Post Options   Quote Crammo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 05 at 6:49pm
i saw this being sailed out of hayling last saturday and i thaught it looked much like a L3000/V3000 no match for a fireball or a L4000 in my opinion
Laser 4000
4253
Back to Top
m_liddell View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 27 May 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 583
Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 05 at 6:40pm

I’m sure the RS guys have done their research but it looks like they are pretty much just trying to redesign a laser 3000, which comes at a bad time since the V3000 has arrived  Between the Vago and V3000 this ‘gap’ is pretty comprehensively covered I think. As others have mentioned, the dinghy market is saturated with single wire classes already, catering for pretty much every crew combination.

 

I just hope the guys selling the V3000 have the money to compete with the inevitable large marketing campaign from RS and it doesn't kill it off

Back to Top
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 05 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Martin Wadhams

The markets we have identified for the RS500 are as follows:

  • Young racing sailors – post Feva / Mirror but outside elite youth squad group >115kg
  • Adult racing sailors – club and regatta circuit sailors <145kg
  • Young or old – sport / recreational sailing
  • Institutions – sport sailing / performance training

The first group mostly aspire to a trapeze boat. Currently they have the choice of 420 and 29er (4000 / Fireball are too big). The 420 is user friendly but expensive and many youngsters would prefer a modern asymmetric boat. The 29er is modern and asymmetric, but only the most talented youngsters are good enough to handle it  (therefore stifling fleet development at club level) and they also have to be light to be competitive. So there is a significant need here for the 500. We’re very close to many of these sailors right now and we’re hearing it directly from them and their parents.

Adult racers - The 500 will suit moderate sized adults as well as the younger sailors, deliberately aimed at transcending the usual age 19 break point. This will be relatively unique. Loss of sailors from the sport at age 19 is known to be a big issue. The 500 will be a boat you can sail at “any” age - that can be used by all the family – that is really easy to handle but loads of fun – that is very reasonably priced. This is another big slot in the market.

Ref the last two groups - recreational sailors and institutions – these two don’t affect the class racing debate, so I’ll not delve into them here.

Martin,

Welcome to the forum.

A couple of questions;

1) Do you think the RS500 will grow the number of active sailors or win/steal people away from other classes?

2) Assuming you answer both to 1) which classes do you anticipate will lose sailors to the RS500?

3) The RS200 is a huge success, do you think that the RS500 will tempt people from that fleet who want to go a bit faster, thus slowing the RS200 phenomena?

Rick

 

Back to Top
Offshoretiger View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 05
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 179
Post Options Post Options   Quote Offshoretiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 05 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by Martin Wadhams

The markets we have identified for the RS500 are as follows:

  • Young racing sailors – post Feva / Mirror but outside elite youth squad group >115kg
  • Adult racing sailors – club and regatta circuit sailors <145kg
  • Young or old – sport / recreational sailing
  • Institutions – sport sailing / performance training

The first group mostly aspire to a trapeze boat. Currently they have the choice of 420 and 29er (4000 / Fireball are too big).

 

Maybe someone should tell all the teenagers currently sailing the fireball that the boat is to big for them.

The guys who won the silver fleet at the fireball worlds are 18, the guys who won the bronze fleet are both 14 and I can think of several other 14, 15 and 16 year olds currently sailing fireballs without any trouble at all.

 

 

...yesterday I couldnt spell enginner...now I are one!......
Back to Top
NeilP View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 23 Nov 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 271
Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 05 at 4:16pm

Tom - too late

And Mr Wadhams - unique is a binary quality. Either it's unique or it isn't. Relatively unique is completely meaningless

Pedantic rant over

Back to Top
NeilP View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 23 Nov 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 271
Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 05 at 4:13pm

This just highlights the stupidity of a marketing-driven approach to dinghy design. How on earth can anyone say that pairs of sailors between 18 and 23 stone are not catered for??? For God's sake, 9 stone helms and 14 stone crews are not uncommon in FD world. Anyone want to make a list of suitable boats that have established circuits, freely available entry-level boats and are a lot of fun. Starting with the Fireball, maybe?

Don't let this nonsense influence you, people. The loss of sailors from the sport at 19+ has NOTHING to do with a lack of classes for them to sail.

This stuff may be good for RS growth figures, but does the sport of dinghy sailing nothing but harm

Back to Top
tgruitt View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2479
Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 05 at 4:09pm
I was gonna copy that from 'the other side' but didnt because i though someone might get angry!
Needs to sail more...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3031323334>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy