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    Posted: 04 Oct 05 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Guest#260

What we need is the the real ale drinking carbon fiber loving epoxy sniffing Cherub clan to realise that if they could get Winder to do for the Cherub




He can build 100 tomorrow if he wants: its a free country: no-one's not going to stop him. Just pony up the cash for the registration and the certificates and there you go. Some builders of more traditional boats have found Cherubs rather challenging, but I bet Andy Patterson (for example) would be available for consultancy given a suitable cheque.

True ... but I think the class has to drive it ... do they want it?

Pehaps they are happy with the current set up.

Winder has turned the Fireball and the Merlin into a SMOD (almost ...) and it is doing great things for boath classes.

But perhaps that is not what Cherub sailing is all about.

Rick
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Posts: 111 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Shingle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 05 at 2:42pm
Perhaps taking an existing craft and modifying is the way forward. The cynic in me can't help but think if someone came out with new design that started to gain popularity LDC would simply use their buying power to compete against it with their own version. So for instance could you take a 505 put on an assymetric with carbon rig and have a winner?
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 05 at 3:49pm

Originally posted by Shingle

Perhaps taking an existing craft and modifying is the way forward. The cynic in me can't help but think if someone came out with new design that started to gain popularity LDC would simply use their buying power to compete against it with their own version. So for instance could you take a 505 put on an assymetric with carbon rig and have a winner?

Following that argument, they would already have launched a laser 4000 competitor, but they haven't despite the rumours of a RS500 in the wings......

Why commercialise a Cherub - the 29erXX looks set to fill that gap very well and it's clear that the Cherub fleet are very happy exercising their freedom of expression!
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Posts: 1991 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 05 at 4:26pm

Originally posted by Shingle

Perhaps taking an existing craft and modifying is the way forward. The cynic in me can't help but think if someone came out with new design that started to gain popularity LDC would simply use their buying power to compete against it with their own version. So for instance could you take a 505 put on an assymetric with carbon rig and have a winner?

Why would you want to put an assymetric on a 505? The class has accepted the rule change to go for bigger kites and as it stands, the bigger kite allows her to behave like a skiff downwind, plus you do have the added bonus of being able to sail the boat straight down wind. Agree about the carbon rigs but have heard rumours that it might happen anyway. The Laser 4000 is a lighter boat than the 505, so why modify a 505 to compete directly with a 4000 when the general complaint that is arising is the 4000 is too heavy. My personal opinion is the 4000 is a cracking boat and fills the gap that this thread is trying to fill. If the 4000 was to go down the 3000 route, shaving a bit of weight off the boat, I reckon it would be detremental to the class racing and destroy the weight equalisation concept behind the boat.
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 05 at 7:42pm

Originally posted by Guest#260

Winder has turned the Fireball and the Merlin into a SMOD (almost ...)

Can't comment on the Fireball but Winder certainly don't have it all their own way in the Merlins; plus much of the variability in Merlins is rig and sails, not hull. So they are far from being a SMOD.
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Posts: 1502 		Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 05 at 10:21pm
It would spoil the racing but a 4000 with about 20kg off and a carbon rig would be a wonderful boat.  As it is the 4000 is pretty good, the wing-wang pole and the big centreboard mean that it goes well enough in the light stuff and yet the modest sail area (if you can call 32 sq m modest) makes it a real blast in the heavy stuff.  Weight equalisation makes it suitable for a wide range of crews and that tough hull means even the oldest is still competitive.  Sadly being a SMOD it will always be the heavy boat that it is, but I have hope that one day it will get a carbon rig.
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Posts: 270 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 05 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC

My personal opinion is the 4000 is a cracking boat and fills the gap that this thread is trying to fill. If the 4000 was to go down the 3000 route, shaving a bit of weight off the boat, I reckon it would be detremental to the class racing and destroy the weight equalisation concept behind the boat.

Frank Bethwaite says that the Laser 2 was 'dumbed down' from his original design by the Laser board at the time, to suit the mass market. Schools and university SAs still appreciate it's ruggedness. This legacy was carried forward into the 3000 and the racing ability of the boat was compromised from the start, compared to what could have been. Not sure the same arguement applies for 505, 4000, ISO, Buzz, etc. which are successful race boats in their own right (to varying degrees).

Maybe all classes need to loosen up after a time though, to survive (a 4000 beater is bound to come along some time) ... or maybe they don't and just try and adapt to the changing pool of owners as the boat moves down market



Edited by yellowhammer
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Posts: 111 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Shingle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 05 at 1:35pm
Ultimately it’s all about what you want from your sailing. An adrenaline rush in an ever more controlled world, a bit of competition or just simple fun.  The Dinghy scene in the UK is in a bit of a dilemma do you choose to ignore progress? Because of modern materials old boats are still fairly competitive so don't get scrapped. Whereas if after 8 years they self destructed we'd be forced to buy new and hence more modern craft, things like self tacking jibs and carbon rigs would be common place.  Look at the features in our cars that even 10 years ago were rare. Taking the 4000 at 10 years old, for instance where does it sit in it’s own product cycle? I believe a measure of how good an OD is can be gauged from how many are currently being built.
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Posts: 1337 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Strawberry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 05 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

er... well despite my earlier post I don't think we need any more classes.

What we need is the the real ale drinking carbon fiber loving epoxy sniffing Cherub clan to realise that if they could get Winder to do for the Cherub what he has done for the Fireball & Merlin it would be great.

I expect a bit of stick for this post of course ... but I think the Cherub would be ideal with the right builder to become a mainstream class.

Rick

Your right, this has been mentioned before and every time it meets the same reply.

The cherubs have atleast two builders who will make you an off the shelf cherub. They are Bloodaxe Boats and Aardvark Technologies!

Please visit:
http://www.aardvarkracing.co.uk/avt3/index.php?option =com_phpshop&page=shop.browse&category_id=cd8d70c738 bfc36661540b2ab6451932&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=1

http://home.freeuk.net/axeman66/cherub.htm
Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry
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Posts: 710 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris Noble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 05 at 2:30pm

3 builders who will make you one! DL boats will do one, but the suitability makes a flat pack one more viable, what happened to RMW are they still planning an off the shelf cherub?
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FOR SALE:

I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list.
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