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Pointing

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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pointing
    Posted: 08 Sep 05 at 8:15pm
Just to add it is down to personal style.

In a breeze (we are talking Lasers here) I tend to go for the pointing and keeping the boat flat (don't be afraid to use cunningham in blow, I think it is the most under used sail control).

In the mid range it's a case of keeping the boat moving and flat (remember flat is fast, if you heel you tend to slip sideways).

In the light stuff (where I tend to lose out being a a porker at my club at 13st) I tend to sail with the sails fairly flat (to keep the wind flwoing) and sailing free. So although I may point 5 to 10 degrees lower I sail that much quicker it makes up for the extra distance.

Just my 2p.....it must work for me though having won 2 out of 3 series so far this year.

Regards,

Paul
Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74
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Sumo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sumo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 05 at 5:31pm
Thanks guys, that has given me a few things to think about and try out next weekend.
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NeilP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 05 at 12:21pm
Good points well made Rick. In an ideal world your boat should be tuned so that you have an upwind 'groove' between pointing as high as possible and footing off by (probably) no more than 5 degrees. You can then go 'bow up', for example off the start to clear a boat to leeward, then once you're clear drop the bow for speed to get over the boat to leeward. Rick is absolutely right, if the boat's not flat there's no point in worrying about any tuning or trimming issues, cos you won't point anyway! In light airs, pull the sheets on slightly in the puffs, otherwise the extra force of the breeze will just open the leeches more. In strong breezes, I tend to luff AND ease the main (both hands down) to keep the boat on it's feet, then drop the bow back down before the main comes back in. It is a matter of what suits you, but the vital thing is to keep the boat flat and moving. That way the foils do the best job of limiting leeway
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 05 at 11:38am

Sail your boat bolt upright is a good start.

In all classes I have sailed I have been known as a "stuffer" rather than a "footer" and I think it's down to style.

Sail upright and when you get a gust luff rather than ease the sheets. This works well for me but I start to struggle when it's over 15 knots - I need to switch to a footer at that point.

You should also be able to swith between modes as tactics require ...

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NeilP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 05 at 10:51am

Pointing ability is, like all tuning issues, dependant on the interaction of a huge number of factors.

Mainsail leech tension has already been mentioned. On a boat like my FD, with a centre main and traveller, this is controlled in moderate breezes by mainsheet tension. As you wind on the leech tension, you also straighten the genoa luff - good thing, also aids pointing. However, as mainsail leech tension increases, you also pull the mast aft from the hounds upwards. This will free the genoa luff and widen the slot - bad thing, hurts pointing. In an FD which will plane to windward in 10 knots, pointing is crucial as the boat can feel great sailed free, but you can find yourself reaching around the ocean, going warp factor 9 but travelling 10 times further than anyone else! This is often simply due to the leeches being too soft. Tighten the leeches and what happens? You're overpowered, main is backwinded by the huge genoa, boat is slow and therefore the foils dont work as well. You're pointing in the right direction now, but slower than a slug on crutches and making a ton of leeway!

What I'm trying to say, in a longwinded and roundabout way, is the whole thing is a balancing act. If your boat doesn't point, first thing to check is the nut on the end of the tiller!

Neil

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 05 at 10:23pm

Here's another aspect of this pointing business.  I sail a 4000 which above about f4 planes to windward quite fast, so when I have to overtake a boat in front I'm inclined to drive rather than point.  I recall passing a 400 in this fashion and after a few minutes I tacked and crossed in front of him.  Back in the bar afterwards he commented on how well my boat pointed - what he meant was how well my boat went to windward, not quite the same thing!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 05 at 10:15pm

I remember sailing a Cherub a few years ago which had a 6 ft long by 9 inch board.  It never got up to the mark in the lulls, but in the puffs it went like the proverbial and if it persisted I always ended up overstanding!

But the previous replies are right, its down to good sails and a good set of foils and a hull which doesn't cause too much drag and (this is often forgotten) a rig which doesn't cause to much drag.

But I have seen many a novice blame his boat for not pointing, whereas in fact he was on the wrong wind shift.  Here's a simple explanation for those prepared to get the graph paper out and work out the subtleties.  When you are being lifted your boat feels like its outpointing those ahead and when you are headed you can convince yourself your boat is not pointing.  But if you look over your shoulder the truth will be revealed!

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Matt Critchley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Critchley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 05 at 9:47pm

Originally posted by JimC



A whole host of complicated stuff:-
The major factors:-

drag, hull and rig
rig layout and sail design
foil design

There are two major limiting factors
- how close you can sail to the wind and still have the sails fill
- how much slower you get as you get close to the wind.


One of the subtler factors is that the faster you go the lower you point.

In most cases there is little that you can do about drag, hull shape etc - without going to a load of expense; particularly in a one design class.

In practice, the biggest single difference will be mainsail leach tension.  The more leach tension that you apply, the higher you will point (at the expense of boat speed) and vice versa.  The issue therefore is to find the ideal compromise between pointing and boat speed to achieve max VMG.

Boats such as B14s, RS800s and Int 14s etc will generally benefit from footing when planing conditions apply whereas Lasers and other non planing boats would probably want to be sailed higher.

With all of this however is the need to keep boat speed up by footing off and then luffiing once at optimum speed.  As speed reduces, then foot again.  The amount you will need to foot/luff is thus boat specific.

Cheers

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 05 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by Sumo

A question for those in the know!


What affects the ability of a dinghy to point well when on a beat?



A whole host of complicated stuff:-
The major factors:-

drag, hull and rig
rig layout and sail design
foil design

There are two major limiting factors
- how close you can sail to the wind and still have the sails fill
- how much slower you get as you get close to the wind.


One of the subtler factors is that the faster you go the lower you point.
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 05 at 6:30pm

It depends on the class. What class are you asking about?

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