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Classes fading in popularity

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    Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 12:05am

Thank you mpl720, that's just the sort of assessment I was looking for.  I'm particularly impressed with the weight range (since I'm getting on for 14 stone).  Now I'll have to verify the boat for myself, - I'll speak to the guy at the club.

Meanwhile Tony Hunt, who is I believe on the L3000 CA, is at my club and I'm getting good vibes about the way this class is developing - however the 3000 is a boat for lightweights so I'm not desparate to try it.

I'm just hoping that the L4000 is able to accomodate some updating when its turn comes around - which is a few years away yet.  Incidentally the Vago is no threat for the 4000, but might be for the 3000 (but any replies ought to be in the approriate thread, otherwise I'll get confused).

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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 9:53am

Tony Hunt is our Technical Rep and has been instrumental in setting up the deal with Vandercraft. Won the Wilsonian GP (meduim handicap fleet, 30 boats) last weekend, ousting the Phantoms and Blazes. The new boat with a good lightweight helm and light-middleweight crew should be a real contender:

1st Laser 3000 3448 Tony Hunt & David Bourne WSC 6
2nd Phantom 1073 Neil Lamprell WSC 7
3rd Blaze 702 Ian Foxwell WSC 9
4th Blaze 675 Russ Hall Broxbourne SC 12
5th Phantom 1153 Malcolm Levey WSC 12

We're not competing for the same territory as the Vago, which is mass market. We are targetting lightweight and youth sailors who are serious about their class or club racing, we don't want to attract the masses. If Vandercraft sell 20 new boats a year we'll be more than happy. We don't see the Vago as a threat, and vice versa.

 



Edited by yellowhammer
Laser 3000 @ Leigh & Lowton SC
www.3000class.org.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 9:57am

Yellowhammer,

What is it about the 3000 that motivates you and others to make so much effort to keep it going.

With so many other similar classes being available and popular why bother keeping the 3000 alive?

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

Yellowhammer,

What is it about the 3000 that motivates you and others to make so much effort to keep it going.

With so many other similar classes being available and popular why bother keeping the 3000 alive?

Rick

I'm sure there's plenty of people around that share that view. The class was on its last gasps when I became involved in late 2003, voted in as Class Rep at the same AGM that Laser announced they were ceasing production, and I'll admit that I had very mixed feelings initially on whether the boat warranted reviving.

Having taken on the job though, I felt I had a responsibility to members (not owners) to protect sources of spares and sails. Our insurance rate had been moved up a bracket to the same as a Laser 4000 due to uncertain spares availability even in the short term. The rate is back down now, and 3000 owners should benefit from considerably cheeper class approved sails, etc.

If you think about it, there are 530 boats out there which are holding value at around the £3,000 mark, thats a combined value of £1.5m. If they became unsupportable against the class rules they could easily have dropped to below the average Laser II value of £1,500, writing off £0.75m of owners money almost overnight. (That's a very good reason why all owners of reasonably modern boats should contribute to their class.)

I was concentrating on exploring new sailmakers, to get a single source of better value class legal sails, when Tony came onto the scene. Jeff Vander Borght was a friend of a friend of his, and Tony bought him into the picture. Jeff was very enthusiatic, and felt the 3000 slotted in nicely alongside the Phantom to smooth his troughs.

When we contacted Frank Bethwaite to sort out his share of design royalties he said the Laser 2 was the worst case he'd experienced of one of his designs "being dumbed down to mediocrity" by the Laser management at the time, a philosophy which carried through to the 3000. He sees real hidden potential which can be developed in the boat.

The 3000 does have a niche of it's own, below the 29er which requires more proficiency, and more suitable for lightweights than the Buzz, etc. The Vago is an unknown, but all the hype is likely to give the class a very different feel to the freindly, low key atmosphere that we're generating.

There's plenty of 'failed' small classes around which still have a following ... should they all be written off? Whether or not we sell new boats, as we hope to, we should seriously enhance the enjoyment many people get from their boat (myself included). That's reason enough for me.

I'll get down off my soap box again now!

Laser 3000 @ Leigh & Lowton SC
www.3000class.org.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peter Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 1:39pm
is the laserII still being made?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 3:18pm

Yellowhammer,

I think it's great you are motivated to keep the flag flying ...

But I also think it's a shame that our sport is so fragmented.

Bigger fleets in less classes would have to be good for the sport but I guess the British mentality is more towards being a big fish in a small pond.

regards,

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 3:35pm

Whilst I was saving up to get back into Contendering after a long period 'in the wilderness' I crewed for a young lad in a Laser II and a Laser 3000 (yes, we only did well when it was windy even though he was only 8 stone) I must say that the 3k was a much nicer boat to sail and I always thought it would go from strength to strength.

But as with all 'inbetweeners' it a fine line between being a stepping stone or falling through the gaps. I guess the II was (and still is?) being bouyed up by uni team racing and so has a reasonable racing pedigree but I think as all-round boats are becoming acceptable again it might not be too late for the 3k?

Yes Rick it would be lovely to all sail the same boats but if that was the case all the niche sailors (the very thin, huge, tall, short people) would p!55 off and play golf, go fishing etc and so although the fleet would still be larger we would lose a great bit of diversity.... and I'd still be riding my motorbike because it'd be a cold day in hell when I shoehorn myself into a Laser again!



Edited by Matt Jackson
Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

 

Bigger fleets in less classes would have to be good for the sport but I guess the British mentality is more towards being a big fish in a small pond.

regards,

Rick

So when are you getting your RS700 Rick?

Sorry the devil in me couldn't resist!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by Hector

Originally posted by Guest#260

 

Bigger fleets in less classes would have to be good for the sport but I guess the British mentality is more towards being a big fish in a small pond.

regards,

Rick

So when are you getting your RS700 Rick?

Sorry the devil in me couldn't resist!

Tee hee. Thought it but hoped someone else would say it. Thanks.

The problem here is that (IMHO) the MPS is a much better boat than the 700 but was released after it, Of course thats whats happening all the time which is why there are so many classes. But if we had some sort of non-proliferation rule the MPS would never have been - and Rick would have to work for LDC

Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by Hector

Originally posted by Guest#260

 

Bigger fleets in less classes would have to be good for the sport but I guess the British mentality is more towards being a big fish in a small pond.

regards,

Rick

So when are you getting your RS700 Rick?

Sorry the devil in me couldn't resist!

I am reluctant to get into this debate - but if you look at the subject of this thread then you will get your answer.

In the last 12 months there have been 50 Musto Skiffs sold - some to former owners of RS700's.

As far as I know there is not a single RS700 owner who has owned an MPS - it's one way traffic - enough said.

I think it is a great shame that there are two classes in this category that split and already small segment of the sport - but a free market cannot stop anyone launching any product they like but .... in the end the market decides.

Rick

 

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