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Classes fading in popularity
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yellowhammer View Drop Down
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Posts: 270 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Classes fading in popularity
    Posted: 28 Jun 05 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by Matt Jackson

I'm a bit isolated from my fleet and I want to stay in touch and progress by keeping up to date with the way the boat is being rigged and sailed and thereby improving my performance at home so I persevere.

But we do occupy the moral high ground, Matt!

I take you back to one of your early posts (above). Wouldn't all racing sailors benefit from this? The associations need money and voluntary effort from enthusiasts if they're to deliver

A lunchtime thought, thinking about how to pay for a joint Ad ... should there be an association of class associations, or is that what the RYA is supposed to be

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KnightMare View Drop Down
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Posts: 1682 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KnightMare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 05 at 2:02pm

Originally posted by Stephan Lloyd

It is usually the owner of the boat who has to be the class association member, rather than the helm.
This is true, I dont have to be a member of the 420 class association to sail the boat at events, I know it seems to go against what I have been saying here, but I refuse to join that association for one event - since I dont own the boat will never sail it again and dont agree with the classes aims (re training etc).  So that is an active decision not to become a member but If i sailed another class for any length of time I would definatly join the CA.

I wouldnt necceseraly say that you occupied the moral high fround all the time, but definatly no one has the right to moan about what CAs do unless they are activly going out there to try and make the changes or do that work them selves.
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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 05 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by yellowhammer

A lunchtime thought, thinking about how to pay for a joint Ad ... should there be an association of class associations, or is that what the RYA is supposed to be

That is part of the function of an organisation like Fastsail, which is in effect a large CA supporting several classes.

As far as advertising goes does anybody think it actually gives any results. I believe the Contender CA stopped advertising in Y&Y because it saw no benefit in it. It gets much more out of the dinghy show and by woed of mouth promotion.
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Strawberry View Drop Down
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Posts: 1337 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Strawberry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 05 at 3:22pm

Originally posted by yellowhammer

A lunchtime thought, thinking about how to pay for a joint Ad ... should there be an association of class associations, or is that what the RYA is supposed to be

I think thats a great idea. We could do things like get a combined stand at the Dinghy Show. Maybe if we pulled our finances together we could challenge the market domination of the SMOD's.

What does Fastsail do? How successfull is it? Can only symetric classes join?
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 05 at 3:41pm

Originally posted by Matt Jackson

I'm sorry but you don't occupy the moral high ground just because you volunteer for a job that everyone knows is thankless.

I never said I did. I'm just pointing out the way things work in reality. It is the people who volunteer who can change things and the people who have been involved who understand how organisations work and where the money comes from and goes. The rest can moan, or even praise, but neither will change a thing. Clubs and classes are only theorectical democracies. How often is there actually a contested election for a post in an association or club committee?
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 05 at 3:45pm

I'm not criticising CA's or the volunteers who run them, really I'm not, and I don't understand why everyone is so touchy about this.

I agree that classes would benefit from more members joining the CA and that everyone should join. It's just that something isn't right for CA membership to be so low and for everyone to agree that strong CAs are needed for healthy classes.

For healthy CAs we need to appeal to those who feel they don't benefit from joining up. I don't have the answers but just repeatedly saying everyone should join their CA won't do it, after all the people we need to join up aren't proactive enough to be reading this forum.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 05 at 3:45pm
Glad I got a reply from the Mirror guys. If (and it is likely as my son gets older) I ever own a mirror with a resale value, then I'd certainly join the assn and come to some events, too. Current resale value is less than assn membership. I am able to mend holes without help from the assn - my wife put her foot through the bottom in November, the boat is that knackered - and I get spares off the club rubbish heap. I suspect that most of the mirror sailors who are not members are in similar positions. Looking at the website, it deals almost entirely with the racing side of things and youth stuff, neither of which have anything to do with what I do with the boat. As for the concept of joining "for the greater good" of the class - sorry, I'd rather spend the money on campsite fees for a weekend away actually sailing the boat.
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 05 at 3:54pm

Originally posted by Rupert

Glad I got a reply from the Mirror guys. If (and it is likely as my son gets older) I ever own a mirror with a resale value, then I'd certainly join the assn and come to some events, too. Current resale value is less than assn membership. I am able to mend holes without help from the assn - my wife put her foot through the bottom in November, the boat is that knackered - and I get spares off the club rubbish heap. I suspect that most of the mirror sailors who are not members are in similar positions. Looking at the website, it deals almost entirely with the racing side of things and youth stuff, neither of which have anything to do with what I do with the boat. As for the concept of joining "for the greater good" of the class - sorry, I'd rather spend the money on campsite fees for a weekend away actually sailing the boat.

Thank you . Can no-one else see that Rupert is not some freeloader, sponging off everyone else, he is the norm at most clubs and therefore someone who should be listened to, not made to feel guilty about not joining and so disenfranchised.

Like I said it's not an us-and-them situation there are committee members on this forum (judging by the ferosity of the attacks on my opinions a fair few) and I thought we might be able to come up with something constructive rather than the tired old "if you think you can do any better you do it!".
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KnightMare View Drop Down
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Posts: 1682 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KnightMare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 05 at 4:04pm
I do have to say that I can see where you are coming from, but not all people who own a boat and dont pay CA fees are in that situation. there is no set rule that every one is in the same situation. I dont hink we are in the position to lay blame but to come up with ways to tackle the lack of 'comitment' to the class, and other ways to fund the CAs work etc.
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 05 at 4:05pm

Originally posted by KnightMare

I do have to say that I can see where you are coming from, but not all people who own a boat and dont pay CA fees are in that situation. there is no set rule that every one is in the same situation. I dont hink we are in the position to lay blame but to come up with ways to tackle the lack of 'comitment' to the class, and other ways to fund the CAs work etc.

Exactly. Who's blaming anyone? Everyone is just being far too sensitive about this.



Edited by Matt Jackson
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