Tiger Trophy

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by Ross Cherub PY is 920. Bit odd considering that it’s currently 975. Not a complaint, just an observation. Generous for a full on 2005 boat: trust me on this. 975 is about right for a good 97 rules boat with one string.

975 being generous is that when its breezy then coz anything less and you slow right down.

as for the handicap needing to change surely it shouldnt drop off the scale as there arent enough full on 2005 boats as you put it the i14 handicap has had there latest rules in for at least 2 years now and the handicap has bearly altered till now for the tiger and the foiling moth off 800 we can see which boat the race committee want to win the tiger trophy.

as for handicaps they have to be on the RYA published list so if the RYA cant be bothered to put your handicap on the list tough luck.

at the end of the day theres only one way to race and thats fleet racing

Originally posted by Neal_g Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by Ross Cherub PY is 920. Bit odd considering that it’s currently 975. Not a complaint, just an observation. Generous for a full on 2005 boat: trust me on this. 975 is about right for a good 97 rules boat with one string. 975 being generous is that when its breezy then coz anything less and you slow right down. as for the handicap needing to change surely it shouldnt drop off the scale as there arent enough full on 2005 boats as you put it the i14 handicap has had there latest rules in for at least 2 years now and the handicap has bearly altered till now for the tiger and the foiling moth off 800 we can see which boat the race committee want to win the tiger trophy. as for handicaps they have to be on the RYA published list so if the RYA cant be bothered to put your handicap on the list tough luck.

Bearing in mind that quite a few of the Cheruboims? on this site took great delight in telling us that the new generation Cherubs are faster than a 29erXX,  a PY of 920 seems very generous. A standard 29er is PY924, and a 29er XX is PY 850 at the Tiger - so maybe 830 would be fairer?

If the RYA do publish a RN for the cherub in 2008 it will definatly drop from 975 but I would be very supprised if it will go as far as 920.

The performance of the Cherub is very variable and one boat can have a performance covering everything from 1000+ down to 800 depending on conditions. From the race data I have seen I expect something between 950 and 930 would be a good number as an average over a range of conditions.

Perhaps we should have a personal handicapping dependent on the level of boasting!

Edited by Granite

It's not all neccesarily about the boat.  One thing i've learnt this year sailing a cherub is getting the thing planing.  Once this happens it becomes a completely different animal, this obviously depends on the weight in the boat and the power that it generates.  Things like the T-foil are simply to get them planing quicker nothing else.  I know that if i come blatting past an RS400 in a force 5 in my '97 rules boat you will complain about the handicap but no one comments in a F2 when i'm getting beaten on the water by Ents and GPs.

As has been mentioned in many discussions on PY as it is a general all weathers handicap it will only be accurate a small amount of the time, based on chat in the cherub class discussion group and some analysis of races the average handicap that was around 943.  But this isn't just cherubs, think of a GP14 for example they are much quicker than an enterprise in bigger winds yet slower in less wind, and so the handicaps are about the same.

Ah yes the old handicap debate. Maybe there could be a separate PY for the twin wire cherubs? Similar to foiling and non-foiling moths. I think 920 could work but as has been said it's hard to give a cherub a fair handicap because the performance varies wildly across the wind and boat range,