Who's going and what are you sailing.

I'll be there in the cherub

i hope thats where it says until it gets to rutland ! dont want it to fall on my boat and just look for the yellow hull while traveling to the event

btw guys i do hope that before you type here to say you are going that you have already entered espeically if you want to go to the 'black tie' dinner

Hopefully I will be there in the 49er, not entered yet, going to push it because I have not actually sailed it with the crew I intend to sail it with for the Tiger! Need to try and get something in before otherwise its not happening. Unless someone experienced wants to? . Possibly helm if you really want.. I just want to get the race in!

Chris

Im going!!!

See you there Ryan!

looks like I will be there in a 14. if not that then the musto.

wont be doing the black tie as I am a poor student

Bov are you doing it with charlie Chandler in the 14 then ??

I think so he rang me a few days ago about it, Is it your boat?

dont worry I will look after her. Its not my 1st time in a 14!

I was just about to post about that.

They seem fair to me, but I'm not certain. The 14 PY is much more realistic.

The bit about other boats makes it pretty pointless for them entering so theres not really any point..

Cherub PY is 920. Bit odd considering that it’s currently 975. Not a complaint, just an observation.

Didn't say it was, but it is still pretty pointless... Or I think so anyway

Cherub does seem quite fast for its handicap though.

I don't know, the XX is pretty fast, lots of sail and a lot lighter than the 5 tonner.

775...

...hope your feeling fast bov!

i think they mean foils on the rudders which most of them have

Yes probably, never seen a proper foiling 14 race.

I think fully foiling is banned! I know it was experimented with, i wouldnt fancy it to be honest that kite in 15 knots on foils ankle breaker!

 yea, I wonder why no one has tried it with the 49er since Greenhalgh and Richardson... Same reason I guess, not everyone has a death wise.

Seen a video on youtube of an 18ft skiff foiling

975 being generous is that when its breezy then coz anything less and you slow right down.

as for the handicap needing to change surely it shouldnt drop off the scale as there arent enough full on 2005 boats as you put it the i14 handicap has had there latest rules in for at least 2 years now and the handicap has bearly altered till now for the tiger and the foiling moth off 800 we can see which boat the race committee want to win the tiger trophy.

as for handicaps they have to be on the RYA published list so if the RYA cant be bothered to put your handicap on the list tough luck.

at the end of the day theres only one way to race and thats fleet racing

Bearing in mind that quite a few of the Cheruboims? on this site took great delight in telling us that the new generation Cherubs are faster than a 29erXX,  a PY of 920 seems very generous. A standard 29er is PY924, and a 29er XX is PY 850 at the Tiger - so maybe 830 would be fairer?

So 800 it is then Phil.  Because why should the sailors in other boats suffer because the Cherubims are sailing a boat which is top spec but is balanced (from a handicap point of view) by all the earlier boats?

If you choose the delights of Cherubing, development et al then you should accept the penalty.

It's not all neccesarily about the boat.  One thing i've learnt this year sailing a cherub is getting the thing planing.  Once this happens it becomes a completely different animal, this obviously depends on the weight in the boat and the power that it generates.  Things like the T-foil are simply to get them planing quicker nothing else.  I know that if i come blatting past an RS400 in a force 5 in my '97 rules boat you will complain about the handicap but no one comments in a F2 when i'm getting beaten on the water by Ents and GPs.

As has been mentioned in many discussions on PY as it is a general all weathers handicap it will only be accurate a small amount of the time, based on chat in the cherub class discussion group and some analysis of races the average handicap that was around 943.  But this isn't just cherubs, think of a GP14 for example they are much quicker than an enterprise in bigger winds yet slower in less wind, and so the handicaps are about the same.

Exactly so it should be at the very lowest (fastest) end so that the Cherubim suffer, not the people racing them.

After all I don't think people race Cherubs for the handicap effect do they?

so on average cherubs are slower than 29ers?? haha thats great and everyone was going on at how much faster they were compared to the XX.

Also there may be a carbon rig 49er at the tiger.....

Who is sailing the carbon rig?

Id like to see one go

It's been a topic for discussion for as long as I can remember, in fact I'm sure I remember a fairly heated debate over the subject of Cherub PY's after Guy & Alex won the Bloody Mary in Flat Stanley back in 1988? (see I really am that old, not just Jim)...

The shorter and lighter the boat, the more binary it becomes (i.e. greater speed difference between displacement sailing and planing). It's much easier to get a "fair average" PY for a longer, heavier boat, as they will tend to displacement sail faster due to the longer waterline, and plane slower, due to the extra weight and greater wetted area.

I don't think any of the Cherub guys sail them to go "pot hunting" on the strength of the PY, it kinda just works in their favour sometimes, and not at other times.

Learn to live with it, there isn't a better solution.

skiffybob very true we can all boast about things about how fast boats are!!!

its like saying a 1 litre micra could smoke a ferrari its just a claim.

cherubs are fast downwind but not many race courses are just downwind 12ft of water line isnt quick upwind simple fact.

years ago fireballs used to have a lightwind handicap and heavy wind handicap but that was unfair so all the handicaps were aligned into 1. iof the tiger is well windy then everyone will complain about the 420 handicap end of.

I've sailed it. Totally subjective of course but it felt easier and quicker. Probably not a literal 'mile' but definately a significant difference.

Hope it is at Rutland  - not only does it go, but to me it looks superb as well.

We came up against Atom Bomb prior to hewr being sold and more recently the GT60 of Pete Barton and feel that in above 8 - 12 knots, these 2 boats are capable of sailing to below 900. Bearing in mind the Tiger is all about winner takes all, believe 920 to be fair and if Pete or another top T foiler Cherub turns up, generous. However, their undoing will be the International Moths as they will be even quicker and when sailing off 800 in a force 3 upwards to force 5 unbeatable. So the B14s and 29er fleets have got to hope for either light winds and slow A Rater or very windy conditions and slow Fireballs and 420s. Whatever the conditions, one or other extreme will come to the fore. One thing the larger classes (B14 13 + 5 MPS boats, 29 20+ boats) have to look forward to, is winning your group fleet and hope for the best with the rest.

Hector will no doubt be hiding amongst the 29er fleet rather than Vortex or Fireball. See you there, at least it won't be Xenon sailing!!

With entries close to closing, it will be interesting to see if they hit the 250 boats.

28 29ers minimum, there will be another one entering (possibly on the day). its a german crew in GER9**. im bringing them down in my little 306 with my 300 also on the double stacker

should be a laugh.

And yea thats a lot of 29ers.. I really want to do it this yea, no iea why so I just hope we are up to it in time!!

Nope, i don't intend to damage my pride and joy

Originally posted by stuarthop I wonder how many of them i can interest in a sail in a cherub..  (and i do have a secret weapon for attracting them)

Does the secret weapon happen to be young, female and have a place to saty on the saturday night(also 20stone maximum weight- Im picky I know), otherwise count me out!

Nothing wrong with a bit of cushion for the pushin'

Haha the confusion I have caused!

James i think i'm the only one that gets that and its just wrong!!!

where do people stay during the tiger trophy?

i want to come down but i would be bringing down 2german lads in a 29er aswell. i have a tent etc but apparently the field opposite is closed up. could anyone in the same position who has found a campsite to stay pm (with contact details of the place?)

thank tom

arent they £13 a night normally? if so £40 is a bit steep, and you have to be going to the dinner aswell i guess, anyway, back to camping - any sites people know of/ are staying at?

tom

I could send you the details of several hotels / B&Bs nearby, not paticularly steep.

Actually there is a camping site about 10 minutes away near Wing, I can try and find you a link or something.

i cant really afford a B&B personally, the germans might go for it in which case i will sleep in car. but camping would be best as we can use porch for kit etc.

if you could get details for the camp site that would be great.

theres got to be people out there camping. not everyone has expensive motorhomes or caravans etc.

http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/sites/reviews.asp?revid=2906 - http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/sites/reviews.asp?revid=2906

Theres a couple of others about, can't think where though. There is a travel lodge about 10 - 15 mins away in Morcott, and couple of cheap B&Bs in Oakham/ Uppingham and surounding villages. Lydington has two pubs with good accomodation (15 minutes) and there is a B&B in Glaston (10 minutes). I have a huge list if you want, our school publish it for visiting parents.

Apparently there is a campsite directly over the road?

Anyhow im in the travelodge with the entire draycote water 29er posse! girls and all