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    Posted: 27 Feb 17 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by Rupert

In the spirit of modern debate, I would just like to say that I disagree on a fundamental level with everything in the report. I've not read it, obviously, but it is clear to me that it is biased towards the perpetuation of a elitist, liberal middle class minority passtime, and as such should not be allowed media coverage.

You should pick some random quotes from it.
Squeezing and Control of Time within the Philosophy of Neo
Liberal Capitalism

various philosophies or ways of relating to the
sea: the Corinthian – yachting as a means of challenging nature; the use
of the yacht to escape, highlighted in the interwar period; and the
location of quality family time, practised as families came aboard in the

1960s and 1970s. This means that alternative philosophies such as
Corinthian yachting, and yachting as carefree relaxation, are challenges
and threats to this world view

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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 17 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by Eisvogel

Originally posted by turnturtle

my own view is that sailing would be better off accepting it's not for everyone and stop trying so damn hard.

But how are you going to find the ones who enjoy sailing and will stick with it, without trying to give as many people a go as possible? Sure, many people will try it, and decide it's not for them. But excluding certain groups from the outset because they are not the kind of people who are typically the sailing kind of people (ie white middle class and above) is not the right approach.


You can't make everyone try sailing. You can offer it to lots of people, like for instance my wife's school offers a bit of sailing to primary school kids, but is that effective? It's good for the kids but probably not at all efficient in bringing people into the sport.
Sailing is not something you can learn in 10 minutes, 'having a quick go' is likely to disappoint.
You have to face the fact that it holds zero fascination for the vast majority of people.
As for sailing being a middle class sport, possibly anyone who is capable of being any good at sailing is capable of succeeding at work too? I know quite a few club members and good sailors who are more working class but they tend to be successful at it. The kind of garage mechanics that start their own business, welders who earn good money, office workers who get promoted, shop assistants who become managers etc.
I have known a few sailors who have been rubbish at their work lives, but they were more 'upper middle class' people.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 17 at 5:36pm
In the spirit of modern debate, I would just like to say that I disagree on a fundamental level with everything in the report. I've not read it, obviously, but it is clear to me that it is biased towards the perpetuation of a elitist, liberal middle class minority passtime, and as such should not be allowed media coverage.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 17 at 5:29pm
I'm all for Liberal ideals guys, as long as we accept they're pretty much a waste of time.... we would be better providing allied facilities to the current demographic... a decent private swimming pool would be a good draw for starters, what about a Yoga Studio?  Or one of those on-the-water inflatable assault courses?

Edited by turnturtle - 27 Feb 17 at 5:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 17 at 5:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Eisvogel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 17 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

my own view is that sailing would be better off accepting it's not for everyone and stop trying so damn hard.

But how are you going to find the ones who enjoy sailing and will stick with it, without trying to give as many people a go as possible? Sure, many people will try it, and decide it's not for them. But excluding certain groups from the outset because they are not the kind of people who are typically the sailing kind of people (ie white middle class and above) is not the right approach.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 17 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

And this is going to seem even more cynical.... 


that bit is correct   Wink


Edited by transient - 27 Feb 17 at 4:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 17 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by Noah

The point, surely, is that a (perhaps tiny) percentage might decide they want more and put some effort in to achieving it, whether by working hard at a job to earn money, or academically to have the freedom of choice later. Entry costs are not necessarily high - I think a large number of non-owners of two-person boats have little or no financial input. And, as I think you have said, an old L@ser can be bought for (almost) pennies.

Well that's the trade off isn't it?  Yes, you might get one or two who stick with it long enough to bring a warm fuzzy feeling in the stomachs of those who set about with the right intentions.... but for the other 98%, they potentially go out there and perpetuate the myth that dinghy sailing is elitist and expensive....  my own view is that sailing would be better off accepting it's not for everyone and stop trying so damn hard.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 17 at 4:40pm
The point, surely, is that a (perhaps tiny) percentage might decide they want more and put some effort in to achieving it, whether by working hard at a job to earn money, or academically to have the freedom of choice later. Entry costs are not necessarily high - I think a large number of non-owners of two-person boats have little or no financial input. And, as I think you have said, an old L@ser can be bought for (almost) pennies.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 17 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by Noah



Also, there are clubs around - one near here for starters - which make the effort to show 'disadvantaged' kids what dinghy sailing is about. 

And this is going to seem even more cynical.... but really, what's the point in that, other than to tick a box on their lottery funding grant application?  It's not actually sustainable- we all know that current 'group think' would suggest you ain't part of the club until you step up to boat ownership.  So how long is someone with financial restriction going to participate before they find another distraction or something else to compete for their time and money?   

And you could argue it's not aspirational either.  After all showing something to someone with limited means to continue might just breed resentment- thus reinforcing the very stereotype which such endeavour was meant to breakdown?      


Edited by turnturtle - 27 Feb 17 at 3:38pm
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