Kite or no kite?

   My girlfriend and I are getting into sailing at our local club and, having plodded around in a Feva for too long, the time has come to buy our own boat.  The club have a Vision we can move into to continue our development for a while.  And a Bahia too.  But it would be nice to get our own boat.

I've done a fair bit of reading but what I can't figure out is... kite or no kite?

The reservoir we sail on is quite small - 600 metres by 300m metres - the longest leg is 500 metres.

The most popular two person boat at the club is the Albacore.  There's the odd Gul and Enterprise but there is only one boat I've ever seen flying a spinnaker - an RS400.  That suggests to me that the water is really too small for a spinnaker.

Now I'm in this for the excitement so I don't want something that feels slow.  But I'm also thinking that the handicap on a spinnaker boat is going to be a major hinderance on such a small body of water when it comes to racing and I want to feel able to move up through the fleet without blaming my boat too much!

We're fit and agile, early 30s, 5'11" 13 stone and 5'6" 10 stone. £1500 is right at the top of our budget.

At the moment I'm leaning toward the Albacore so I can race like for like at the club, but they seem to be a bit pricey.  Oh, and I have no appetite for woodwork!  What other non-spinnaker boats would anyone recommend?

Or have I got it all wrong? Should I go fly a kite?

Any advice is much appreciated!

Thank you
Steven

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batfinki Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 04 Sep 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote batfinki Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Kite or no kite? Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 11:02pm
	My girlfriend and I are getting into sailing at our local club and, having plodded around in a Feva for too long, the time has come to buy our own boat. The club have a Vision we can move into to continue our development for a while. And a Bahia too. But it would be nice to get our own boat. I've done a fair bit of reading but what I can't figure out is... kite or no kite? The reservoir we sail on is quite small - 600 metres by 300m metres - the longest leg is 500 metres. The most popular two person boat at the club is the Albacore. There's the odd Gul and Enterprise but there is only one boat I've ever seen flying a spinnaker - an RS400. That suggests to me that the water is really too small for a spinnaker. Now I'm in this for the excitement so I don't want something that feels slow. But I'm also thinking that the handicap on a spinnaker boat is going to be a major hinderance on such a small body of water when it comes to racing and I want to feel able to move up through the fleet without blaming my boat too much! We're fit and agile, early 30s, 5'11" 13 stone and 5'6" 10 stone. £1500 is right at the top of our budget. At the moment I'm leaning toward the Albacore so I can race like for like at the club, but they seem to be a bit pricey. Oh, and I have no appetite for woodwork! What other non-spinnaker boats would anyone recommend? Or have I got it all wrong? Should I go fly a kite? Any advice is much appreciated! Thank you Steven

scotsfinn Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 17 May 12 Location: Glasgow Online Status: Offline Posts: 284	Post Options Post Reply Quote scotsfinn Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 11:24pm
	National 12? Exciting, no spinnaker, they tack well - get a design that suits inland sailing - but you might get wet early on in a blow
	Largs Sailing Club. D-Zero GBR 57, B14 744 www.blueseaconsultingllp.com

winging it Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 22 Mar 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3958	Post Options Post Reply Quote winging it Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 3:18am
	Maybe a bit heavy for 12? What about an Enterprise? But I agree, no kite.
	the same, but different...

patj Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 16 Jul 04 Location: Wiltshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 643	Post Options Post Reply Quote patj Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 6:37am
	There are still plenty of old plastic Albacores around and with a decent set of sails they are a powerful boat. Our old 1973 Fosrite is still up the front at our puddle club. More tend to become available over winter and prices are then lower so keep looking. There's a nice composite (grp hull, wooden decks) for sale at Cheddar (Bristol Corinthian). Or watch ebay and Apollo Duck sites. They often sell through word of mouth or club notices so keep asking around. We've raced Larks and Merlins before that and at a small club the kite is a big handicap - you spend more time setting and dropping it than gaining from its flying so the Albacores usually pass you. Or the race officer sets a course for Laser sailors with lots of short legs and gybes! Edit - 11 boats on Apollo Duck including a hull for £50 and a nice looking one at Nottingham http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/listings.phtml?cid=102 Edited by patj - 10 Sep 14 at 6:51am

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 6:44am
	I agree that you'll probably find a kite boat frustrating. Boat speed won't make a lot of difference at a small venue like that too, getting the shifts will be key to doing well. So don't panic too much about the latest whizzy boat as long as its got decent rags.

iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 7:39am
	Kite, every time, boats are boring without them, unless you're in the confines of say a little 40 acre lake where you can't sail two minutes in any direction without having to tack or gybe, then you buy a Miracle Matchbox Toy and use its kite. Or do what I do, sail single handed and get your kicks with a proper kite, kiteboarding, we sell some amazing new kites. Edited by iGRF - 10 Sep 14 at 8:13am
	Snow Equipment Deals New Core Kite website

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 8:38am
	See if you can borrow one of the Albacores for a couple of races in different conditions to se if you get on with it. So long as there isn't an arms war going on a the club with buying new ones, a £1500 Alb with decent sails should be able to compete on such a small pond. Otherwise, an Ent would suit, but for £1500 I'm not sure what decent GRP boats you'd be able to get - the wooden ones were much nicer until recently. There are National 12 designs which take 23 stone easily, so worth a longer look there, too.
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

kneewrecker Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586	Post Options Post Reply Quote kneewrecker Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 9:21am
	N12 - no brainer, great boats.

Ian29937 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 25 May 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 409	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ian29937 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 10:20am
	There's a fleet of Albacore's - no brainer, great boats,

GybeFunny Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 27 Oct 09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 403	Post Options Post Reply Quote GybeFunny Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 10:47am
	In my opinion a kite on that small a lake is only good if you can fleet race other boats of the same class as you will quickly get frustrated at getting destroyed on handicap by the non-kited boats. It sounds like you dont have a fleet of spinnaker boats so I suggest joining the biggest fleet there, you will learn much more sailing in a fleet than you will being the only boat in your class. If you join a fleet you will be able to track your progress as you get nearer to beating "Bob and Sue in the blue boat" and after a year you may be able to beat them in a few races, whereas if you raced in the only N12 you would be miles behind them one week and miles in front the next as the wind suited the different boats, how would you track your progress then? I fleet raced an RS200 on a small puddle and enjoyed some really close sailing, there is no way I would have sailed an RS200 on that puddle if all I was doing was handicap racing. Edited by GybeFunny - 10 Sep 14 at 10:48am