Kite or no kite?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11648
Printed Date: 05 Aug 25 at 6:27am
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Topic: Kite or no kite?
Posted By: batfinki
Subject: Kite or no kite?
Date Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 11:02pm
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My girlfriend and I are getting into sailing at our local club and, having plodded around in a Feva for too long, the time has come to buy our own boat. The club have a Vision we can move into to continue our development for a while. And a Bahia too. But it would be nice to get our own boat. I've done a fair bit of reading but what I can't figure out is... kite or no kite? The reservoir we sail on is quite small - 600 metres by 300m metres - the longest leg is 500 metres. The most popular two person boat at the club is the Albacore. There's the odd Gul and Enterprise but there is only one boat I've ever seen flying a spinnaker - an RS400. That suggests to me that the water is really too small for a spinnaker. Now I'm in this for the excitement so I don't want something that feels slow. But I'm also thinking that the handicap on a spinnaker boat is going to be a major hinderance on such a small body of water when it comes to racing and I want to feel able to move up through the fleet without blaming my boat too much! We're fit and agile, early 30s, 5'11" 13 stone and 5'6" 10 stone. £1500 is right at the top of our budget. At the moment I'm leaning toward the Albacore so I can race like for like at the club, but they seem to be a bit pricey. Oh, and I have no appetite for woodwork! What other non-spinnaker boats would anyone recommend? Or have I got it all wrong? Should I go fly a kite? Any advice is much appreciated! Thank you Steven
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Replies:
Posted By: scotsfinn
Date Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 11:24pm
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National 12? Exciting, no spinnaker, they tack well - get a design that suits inland sailing - but you might get wet early on in a blow ------------- Largs Sailing Club. D-Zero GBR 57, B14 744 www.blueseaconsultingllp.com |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 3:18am
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Maybe a bit heavy for 12? What about an Enterprise? But I agree, no kite. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 6:37am
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There are still plenty of old plastic Albacores around and with a decent set of sails they are a powerful boat. Our old 1973 Fosrite is still up the front at our puddle club. More tend to become available over winter and prices are then lower so keep looking. There's a nice composite (grp hull, wooden decks) for sale at Cheddar (Bristol Corinthian). Or watch ebay and Apollo Duck sites. They often sell through word of mouth or club notices so keep asking around.
We've raced Larks and Merlins before that and at a small club the kite is a big handicap - you spend more time setting and dropping it than gaining from its flying so the Albacores usually pass you. Or the race officer sets a course for Laser sailors with lots of short legs and gybes! Edit - 11 boats on Apollo Duck including a hull for £50 and a nice looking one at Nottingham http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/listings.phtml?cid=102" rel="nofollow - http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/listings.phtml?cid=102 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 6:44am
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I agree that you'll probably find a kite boat frustrating.
Boat speed won't make a lot of difference at a small venue like that too, getting the shifts will be key to doing well. So don't panic too much about the latest whizzy boat as long as its got decent rags. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 7:39am
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Kite, every time, boats are boring without them, unless you're in the confines of say a little 40 acre lake where you can't sail two minutes in any direction without having to tack or gybe, then you buy a Miracle Matchbox Toy and use its kite.
Or do what I do, sail single handed and get your kicks with a proper kite, kiteboarding, we sell some amazing new kites. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 8:38am
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See if you can borrow one of the Albacores for a couple of races in different conditions to se if you get on with it. So long as there isn't an arms war going on a the club with buying new ones, a £1500 Alb with decent sails should be able to compete on such a small pond. Otherwise, an Ent would suit, but for £1500 I'm not sure what decent GRP boats you'd be able to get - the wooden ones were much nicer until recently. There are National 12 designs which take 23 stone easily, so worth a longer look there, too. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 9:21am
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N12 - no brainer, great boats. ------------- |
Posted By: Ian29937
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 10:20am
| There's a fleet of Albacore's - no brainer, great boats, |
Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 10:47am
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In my opinion a kite on that small a lake is only good if you can fleet race other boats of the same class as you will quickly get frustrated at getting destroyed on handicap by the non-kited boats. It sounds like you dont have a fleet of spinnaker boats so I suggest joining the biggest fleet there, you will learn much more sailing in a fleet than you will being the only boat in your class. If you join a fleet you will be able to track your progress as you get nearer to beating "Bob and Sue in the blue boat" and after a year you may be able to beat them in a few races, whereas if you raced in the only N12 you would be miles behind them one week and miles in front the next as the wind suited the different boats, how would you track your progress then? I fleet raced an RS200 on a small puddle and enjoyed some really close sailing, there is no way I would have sailed an RS200 on that puddle if all I was doing was handicap racing.
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Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 11:17am
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Good points above- scratch that 12, get an Albacore if there's a fleet of them! ------------- |
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 11:55am
| Albacores are great boats, we have a fleet at Tewkesbury. however in my opinion and having owned cheaper boats you will be outclassed by the modern Ovi's. Even the old wooden woofs seem to struggle now! Thats not to say don't buy one, it would be good to cut your teeth in something like an older composite porter, which would still put you on the line if you sail well. For me i wouldn't touch a fosrite for anything other than cruising. If you upped your budget by £500-£1000 you would get a very, very nice boat that would be more than capable. |
Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 12:18pm
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Far more important, in my view, than the type of boat is do other people sail them? If there's a fleet of Albacores at the club I'd say your decision is made. It's always going to be far more fun sailing in a class fleet than competing on handicap. ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 12:31pm
I think we can say categorically that isn't true for everyone, otherwise there wouldn't be so much more handicap racing than club racing. However if you don't have strong feelings about what sort of boat you want to sail there is a lot to be said for having a boat that is sailed in numbers at your club. You know it probably suits the water, you know there'll be backup available and a good number of other advantages. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 12:50pm
Echo that! If that were true I'd be looking for a Miracle. Can you imagine it? ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Punky
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 12:53pm
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Reasons not to get a kite boat:
1. On a small lake you will half the leg hoisting and dropping
2. Kites need replacing regularly and cost lots of money
3. For £1500 the boat will probably have naff system that makes hoisting, setting, gybing and dropping harder than it should be.
4. You stand far more chance of cocking up a gybe and swimming.
5. You stand far more chance of trawling the kite during recovery and either tearing it or going very slowly.
6. The crew (your g/f) will get calluses on their hands from rope burn.
The Albacore makes most sense especially if you have a fleet there, otherwise you can pick up a perfectly decent Tasar for that sort of money (but they aren't the best small lake boats either), or an Enterprise (doubt that would get you a foam one though) or N12, Graduate or Firefly or a Graduate (but 23 stone is on the heavy side for all these because they are small boats).
You could buy a boat with a kite and just not use it - that opens up Merlin Rockets and Scorpions but they would be wood and relatively high maintenance probably.
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Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 1:10pm
| When sailing with a partner, kite hoists/drops/gybes are complicated by having to say "please" every time, in a gentle tone of voice. Too much work to remember. |
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 1:55pm
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Go for the class that is sailed at your club ie the Albacore. It is much more satisfying to race boat on boat when you know how well you have done immediately on the water and can measure your progress. In handicap racing, you have little idea until the results are published.
The only reason that so much handicap racing goes on is that clubs are not brave enough to encourage fleets. As for Mags and his please before spinnaker action, my crew react to shorter words like yes, go or down! If you are slick the spinnaker can be up and drawing within a maximum of 2 boats lengths of the mark so that on short legs, it can still pay off. ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: batfinki
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 10:36pm
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Hi all Thank you so much for the time you've taken to offer me advice. The thought and effort you've put into your posts is really impressive! It's a great community on the forum here. It seems pretty clear that it's a GRP Albacore I need. I've looked on Apollo Duck, the Albacore class website, ebay, gumtree, ... and there's a few potential boats on there. I can't figure out exactly what's driving such a range of values, so I'll be running every potential purchase past everyone at the club to make sure I don't make a mistake. That said, we took the Vision out tonight and had a great time, so that will help me find the patience to wait for the right boat to come along. Thanks again Steven
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Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 10:59pm
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I would go for FRP as opposed to GRP. Much stiffer and ages better. ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: Punky
Date Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 11:04pm
| But you'll not get one near £1500 in FRP sadly. |
Posted By: JohnW
Date Posted: 11 Sep 14 at 10:07am
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The prices are out of date and I need to update it to include the Ovi boats but this may be of use. http://albacore.ca/caa_files/AlbacoreBuyersGuide_UK_2008.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://albacore.ca/caa_files/AlbacoreBuyersGuide_UK_2008.pdf |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 11 Sep 14 at 10:50pm
Oh that's where I've been getting it wrong!
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Posted By: batfinki
Date Posted: 12 Sep 14 at 9:40pm
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"When first moving into the class, it can be a little confusing as to why two apparently similar boats are priced very differently" Amen! Thanks John!
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Posted By: vscott
Date Posted: 15 Sep 14 at 4:03pm
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An Albacore is a nice boat and will teach you loads. One thing to remember is that you will almost certainly decide to change boat after a couple of years - as your skills progress and you learn more about other classes. This is NORMAL and part of the learning curve. You might change class or just get something in better condition. Or just add to your fleet (that is a slippery slope) Also take up ANY offers of rides in other boats, as you will learn so much; about the boat and your skills and different ways of doing things. All good experience. ------------- Mk IV Osprey 1314 Think Again 
Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: Marc di Maria
Date Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 9:57pm
My friend I'll understand why you posted this request. I agree that there is probably frustrating to have a boat kite, but for safety I recommend it.
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