505 running costs

   I've been looking at old Fireballs and 505s, and I can't work out whether an old grp 505 would cost significantly more to run than an old grp/composite Fireball (by old, for both boats I mean costing less than £1000 to buy). Not talking circuit competition here, just club racing with an old hull, certainly not buying new sails, foils etc. on any regular basis. Do 505 parts break a lot, and if so do they cost a lot to replace? I noticed insurance is a lot more expensive for 505s than Fireballs. Oh and can 30 year old 505 hulls take the stress of the new bigger spinnakers? Finally, what's the practical minimum crew weight for a 505 i.e. what weight is required on the board to right it after a capsize?

Thanks

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curiosity Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 08 Jun 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote curiosity Report Post Quote Reply Topic: 505 running costs Posted: 08 Jun 13 at 9:53pm
	I've been looking at old Fireballs and 505s, and I can't work out whether an old grp 505 would cost significantly more to run than an old grp/composite Fireball (by old, for both boats I mean costing less than £1000 to buy). Not talking circuit competition here, just club racing with an old hull, certainly not buying new sails, foils etc. on any regular basis. Do 505 parts break a lot, and if so do they cost a lot to replace? I noticed insurance is a lot more expensive for 505s than Fireballs. Oh and can 30 year old 505 hulls take the stress of the new bigger spinnakers? Finally, what's the practical minimum crew weight for a 505 i.e. what weight is required on the board to right it after a capsize? Thanks

RS400atC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011	Post Options Post Reply Quote RS400atC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Jun 13 at 11:57pm
	Thinking about the boats that were nearly new When I had an old 5-0 twenty something years ago, the boats that are now 30 years old should be pretty well made. They were sailed hard by big people in big weather and were not known for breaking, except masts in shallow water. They are not particularly hard to right. In those days, an old 5-0 was cheap to run, you could get secondhand sails easily. The normal costs of covers, blocks, cleats can stack up on any cheap boat though.

curiosity Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 08 Jun 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote curiosity Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 13 at 3:09pm
	Thanks! As long as it's not likely to be as much of a maintenance money pit as a performance skiff, I'm happy. Another couple of questions: do the spinnakers get torn very often compared to the asymmetrics on boats like 9ers and performance cats? And are there any particular weak points in the hull to be checked on 2nd hand boats?

Contender 541 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 05 Dec 05 Location: Burton on Trent Online Status: Offline Posts: 1402	Post Options Post Reply Quote Contender 541 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 13 at 6:33pm
	In the years I have been sailing a 5oh, I have never torn a spinnaker. I have seen one or two holes (tape repair0, but never anything more than 3 inches
	When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780

Ian29937 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 25 May 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 409	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ian29937 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 13 at 11:09pm
	[QUOTE=curiosity] Thanks! As long as it's not likely to be as much of a maintenance money pit as a performance skiff, I'm happy. Another couple of questions: do the spinnakers get torn very often compared to the asymmetrics on boats like 9ers and performance cats? [QUOTE] I'm intrigued by your comment on skiffs. My RS 700 has been one of the cheapest boats I've owned, certainly cheaper than the fireball I had way back when, which was always breaking (pre Winder one design...)and I've never ripped an a kite. I just wondered what sort of problems you've experienced to prompt the question? Apologies for the slight diversion off topic... Ian

curiosity Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 08 Jun 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote curiosity Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 13 at 3:13pm
	The RS 600, 700 and 800 seem to be built a bit heavier, and a lot more solidly than 9ers. I've seen a massive number of 9er and catamaran sails go in different places for different reasons, plus a whole load of other breakages - 29er masts snap like matchsticks, I've seen 49ers with hull integrity problems etc. All on older boats, but by old I mean year 2000. In addition they just seem to accrue loads of extra little costs over boats; jib cars blowing, ropes wearing out quickly, foils taking on water, screws in the hull ripping out. They're built light and have big loads put on them, so it's not surprising as they age. Just my experience, I'm sure some people have had ones with no issues at all with them. But I know 505s are performance boats with big sails, so I just want to work out if the sails will spend their whole time at the sailmaker's. Obviously it is unavoidable that there'll be some cost involved, but I'm trying to avoid having too much.

Ian29937 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 25 May 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 409	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ian29937 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 13 at 4:31pm
	OK thx. I've always been a fan of RS which I consider 90% boats - ie 90% of the performance but a lot easier to sail and it appears a lot cheaper to run. They're not bullet proof, but pretty good imho. Good luck with the fireball/505 hunt. I think the fb is a great boat and probably simpler and more robust, particularly if you can find an early Winder. Cheers ian Edited by Ian29937 - 10 Jun 13 at 5:21pm

curiosity Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 08 Jun 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote curiosity Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 13 at 4:43pm
	Great, thanks! Same view on RS, nice, well-built boats! Another question for those who've sailed them: are Fireballs significantly worse on the sea? I've seen it suggested that 505s are much better/drier on choppy water. And are chute Fireballs significantly worse on the sea than Fireballs with spinnaker bags?

Ian29937 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 25 May 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 409	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ian29937 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 13 at 5:20pm
	Fireball is great on the sea but is a wet boat - avoid chutes as they just suck up the water... It was the reason most of the fleet moved back to bags.

curiosity Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 08 Jun 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote curiosity Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jun 13 at 2:03pm
	Thanks! Is it possible to retrofit bags to a chute Fireball and then put a cap on the chute? Or does a Fireball need to have the holes in the fore deck just behind the mast to take bags?