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LP refusing to charter

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Alistair426 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Alistair426 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: LP refusing to charter
    Posted: 11 Feb 12 at 12:55pm
As ex-Laser says 'even if they stopped building boats tomorrow there are so many boats around, it would years to die'.
Unfortunately, it looks as though those who should have its commercial interests at heart are going to kill the goose. For good or bad, the one thing that keeps the Laser going is that, in general (don't start on about Aussie top sections, etc.), they are all the same. Joe Sailing-Public can go to a Laser Champs anywhere in the world and charter a new boat and stand a chance of doing as well as their skill allows. Think of all the folks who go to the Laser Masters Worlds because  they can charter a decent boat; they aren't going to travel across the world on the off-chance they haven't rented a pup.
There are enormous business opportunities for the likes of Rooster (Cockerill be his name!) to sell Laser parts once the class becomes de-regulated and people simply buy the best quality/value/performance part rather than the bit with the little red Laser sticker on it.
I'm no apologist for the Laser, in fact I've recently bought a Solo as my second boat as I couldn't face buying another Laser, but the Laser concept is, to my mind, a sound one and it will be a shame to see it fall apart. Unfortunately for the Laser itself, it isn't a good enough boat to survive outside of the concept which has made it so successful.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 12 at 2:59pm
Its looking increasingly like a bad attack of beancounteritis at LPE isn't it...
Maybe its time for another fundamental rule change ballot, this one to change the class name and logo so that the Laser Trademark is no longer required...
Unfortunately if the class were to move towards an open manufacture model I suspect you'd find prices would increase rather than decrease: it always seem to me that vendors compete on performance rather than price.
I can just imagine the advertising copy now:

"Choose South Sails for your Laser
South sails are completely compliant with every aspect of the one design construction manual, but thanks to our painstaking care in build and exceptional quality control every South sail is just as fast as it can possibly be within the construction regulations, and will last better than any other brand.
South sails are the exclusive choice of our sponsored Laser team, featuring Tom Catapultsby, Paul Badison and Andy Baloney with the full rig, and Rage Pailey, Morni Van Nacker and Maris Sternmistress in the Radial team"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 12 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by JimC

Its looking increasingly like a bad attack of beancounteritis at LPE isn't it...
Maybe its time for another fundamental rule change ballot, this one to change the class name and logo so that the Laser Trademark is no longer required...
Unfortunately if the class were to move towards an open manufacture model I suspect you'd find prices would increase rather than decrease: it always seem to me that vendors compete on performance rather than price.
I can just imagine the advertising copy now:

"Choose South Sails for your Laser
South sails are completely compliant with every aspect of the one design construction manual, but thanks to our painstaking care in build and exceptional quality control every South sail is just as fast as it can possibly be within the construction regulations, and will last better than any other brand.
South sails are the exclusive choice of our sponsored Laser team, featuring Tom Catapultsby, Paul Badison and Andy Baloney with the full rig, and Rage Pailey, Morni Van Nacker and Maris Sternmistress in the Radial team"


Jim, A little more ice is needed, with the G&T....

That just sounded like a drunken rambling, and making no point...

Sorry if I have misread you, but that was gibberish....

Jon
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 12 at 3:21pm
Makes sense to me Jon.

If you open it up to more manufacturers, the price wont come down. The manufacturers will just start competing on the perceived improvements in quality that they then allege to offer.
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sprayblond View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sprayblond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 12 at 3:31pm
Disagree. Not if you define OD closely enough. When oppies moved to one design prices dropped by 30% and they had typically 8 manufacturers boats in the top 10.

Do you honestly think that Far East would hesitate one second in offering a cheaper boat? And yes, the  McLaughlins and Nautivelas would claim they had a better boat. But where it really matters at world championships it will be 100% charter anyway so who cares.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 12 at 3:46pm
and oppie sailing is now an arms race where sailors (parents) lash out £100s hoping to gain that extra second.  The champ package is now 2 grand more expensive than the club package.....people will always try to buy speed, especially in an olympic class, and the one design ethic just goes out the window.
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote sprayblond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 12 at 3:49pm
From Optiworlds:

CHEAPER AND MORE ONE DESIGN

The following article by Robert Wilkes appeared in the November 1998 issue of the ISAF newsletter.

A 5–year exercise by the International Optimist Association (IODA) has resulted in a price reduction averaging around 25% and a return to strict one–design principles.

The project started in 1992 when IODA president Helen Mary Wilkes was called before the I.Y.R.U. Executive. The Optimist, she was told, had become too expensive. What could the Class do to reduce prices?

The problem was both technical and commercial. The technical problem was a common one, one-design no longer meant one-design. Boats from certain builders were, or were perceived to be, faster than others. As a result they were exported worldwide, incurring transport costs and dealer mark-ups. A boat that cost $1,000 at the factory could sell for $3,000 from an exclusive agent on the other side of the World.

For commercial advice IODA consulted the professor of International Marketing at Dublin University. He felt that the price problem was very like in the pharmaceutical industry, like aspirin. Almost anyone could make the generic product: but customers paid highly for a "named brand" and could be sold a "NEW! IMPROVED!" product without any evidence that it was actually better. The result was a long distribution chain. The answer was to ensure that all builders made the same boat to a strict but freely available published specification.

First the specification had to be tightened. Fred Kats, a member of both the IODA Technical Committee and the IYRU CBC, led a team which devised a specification that could be built to tight tolerances by any competent builder and would be exactly the same speed as the best existing boats so the latter would not become obsolete. It was also essential to establish a system for measuring prototypes from each set of moulds including laminate samples, and to make regular checks thereafter.

Many, including highly-placed figures in the sailing world, believed that it could not be done. Everyone knew that the only way to get one-design boats was to have a single manufacturer or consortium. However in 1994 the IODA AGM decided to go ahead and secured IYRU approval. The 1995 Worlds saw the first production models. "Old-style" boats still won but there were "new-style" boats in top places.

The problems were not over. The first boats, maybe because of rarity value, were even more expensive than the old ones. Most builders adopted a "wait and see" policy and six months before the 1 March 1996 deadline for the changeover, only two had approved prototypes. The breakthrough came in November 1995 when the largest Optimist builder in the World secured approval. Suddenly there was a scramble to follow and nine builders got approval within the following seven months.

The strain on the prototype measurement system was intense. One of the Class International Measurers(IM's) David Harte, himself a qualified boatbuilder, effectively gave up other work and spent 86 nights abroad measuring prototypes and advising builders. Other IM's assisted, particularly with re-measurement. The cost was high, but fortunately IODA had secured major sponsorship from Nesquik.

By mid-1997 the International Measurers KNEW that all builders, by now 27 of them, were building identical boats. But would results prove this? The answer was a resounding yes! At the Europeans ten builders had boats in top ten places, boys and girls, and the Worlds was similar. The case was proved.

The effect on the market and prices has been immediate. If any builder's boat could win, why pay a premium? If a boat built in one's own country could compete with the best, why import? If this year's boat is identical to last year's and is durable, why buy new every season?

So, with now 30 builders in 23 countries on five continents, at least 40% of sailors are already buying boats built in their own country. And in most of the world prices in real terms are 25% lower than in 1992, a global saving of around US$1.25 million.

And the young sailors have a true one-design to sail.

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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 12 at 3:55pm
that's 14 years old!  And in the meantime, look what's sneaking up behind them:




Edited by winging it - 11 Feb 12 at 3:56pm
the same, but different...

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oldarn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 12 at 8:15am
Originally posted by winging it

and oppie sailing is now an arms race where sailors (parents) lash out £100s hoping to gain that extra second.  The champ package is now 2 grand more expensive than the club package.....people will always try to buy speed, especially in an olympic class, and the one design ethic just goes out the window.
 
+1,  resulting in the beginning of the end!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rockhopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 12 at 8:25am
Agree with the teras being an up and  coming class and cheap compared to the oppie and you can sail the tera against the tide unlike the oppie at our club  
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