skills 'ceiling'

Originally posted by winging it This isn't meant to knock either of those groups - each to their own of course - but I wonder if a point gets reached where you just don't improve, or even whether a 'pecking order' gets established, especially at club level, where a psychological barrier also comes into play.

Having had a little offline discussion with Winging it on this one (she and I are a member of the same club). It is interesting to see this. We have a guy at our club who wins practically everything he sails in (at club level, he was 8th at the recent class nationals out of 60+ boats so he is a handy sailor). Everyone wants to get on terms and beat him. For most of us 'mere mortals' it is a great feeling when we get one over on him. What we cannot do is beat him consistently enough.

There is a mindset of 'Oh so and so is here so that's another place down the fleet I go'. This has a huge impact (I think) in that people tend to ignore that person and give them an easy ride. Take the Laser fleet at Hunts. There are 4 or 5 of the regulars who are capable of winning regularly and consistently. When we are all out together there are some great battles (we had one recently when there were 3 boats seperated by nothing for the whole race, the winning boat won by about 2 feet). So you could say there is not established pecking order but there is one guy who I consider a challenge and perhaps that is why he tends to get ahead of me more then me ahead of him, I take my eye off the ball as it were.

Now take this up another level. None of this group regularly competes on the Open circuit. When we get to our club Laser open the same 4 or 5 are generally there ot there abouts with the open circuit guys. Now this could just be home water advantage or it could be that the competitive local environment is pushing the standard up (discuss).

As a side note I always find I underperform at the Laser open, particularly this year. I should quite easily have been second overall (I was holding secind in 2 races for a very long time). Then I made a few silly mistakes, probably second guessed myself and let people through (or went for a swim). This is probably more the difference (in a OD class anyway) The guys who do the open circuit are sharper and make less mistakes...

Just my 2p....

Edited by jeffers

There are two distinct skill sets.

1) The making the thing go fast and not falling off it bit.

2) The making sure you go at the right time from the right place in all the
right directions bit.


The first one becomes difficult to maintain/learn afresh (especially when you
start to knock the years on a bit and or get a proper job/family), but the second bit should
stick most of your career, assuming you got to learn it properly in the first place and
realised it's probably more important than the first bit.

Edited by G.R.F.

It is very difficult to quantify exactly what makes some sailors so good. We have a 12 year old at our club whose father is a top competitor in another international sport. Now, his sailing skills seem no different from the other juniors but he sure wants to win and just needs to get a grip of the skill thing, and he will (win). Another junior seem thoughtful and keen to learn but needs the competitive edge.

Top sailors who are well known names are all, or started as, club racers so spot the potential champions in your club. We have three sailors in our tiny club capable of winning national events, and two have achieved it.

I have observed that national fleets are split into three. Good, average and poor. There will always be an elite group at the top with a chance of winning, the number of these increasing with the size of the fleet.

Skill levels in different classes do not vary but young (ish) fit people  sail 600's etc. and the more mature  race the more 'portly' classes.

All this is personal opinion from personal observation (observed from the back) of the fleet.

Originally posted by G.R.F. Agreed.. Well I say agreed, Doddsy Musto jockey manages to piss it in and still come up with race victories... Even leaving the start last, having to do turns at the gybe... There is therefor a third essential skill set to master.. 3)Mastery of Handicap Banditry..

or just developing speed...

I think pretty much every club I have sailed at (as a member or just visiting, inland or sea) has some kind of local oddity.  And even if it doesn't I would usually turn up expecting there to be one so be thrown by the fact that there isn't one.

I think I may have just found a new excuse to add to the list....

(And I am not talking about the local oddities found in the bar after racing.....)

Edited by Dougal