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YouthSailing, the RYA and Catamarans

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Worthy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: YouthSailing, the RYA and Catamarans
    Posted: 16 Oct 07 at 9:53am
Originally posted by Chew my RS

Sorry, hope that doesn't come across as harsh.  I just don't want you guys losing sight of the target.


No worries, still, your X Files comments made me laugh


Edited by Worthy
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Stuart O View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 07 at 10:04am

No can safely say that Mulder and Scully would have turned this mystery down... too wierd for even them!!!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sprint Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 07 at 10:10am

Originally posted by Worthy

Originally posted by Chris 249



Out of curiousity, Bob, who on this forum is an RYA mole?



I have suspected 4 users for quite some time.  They are quite easy to spot and 3 of them have only made one post and the other I am not so sure about.  They are:

Sailor Pete
Barney S
Sad Old Parent
Bigcat (this is the one with more than one post)

Jon, Thanks - it save me trawing through the 48 pages again.

Cheers

Bob

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sprint Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 07 at 10:59am

Originally posted by Chris 249



 
I see that "UKCRA asked if MNA’s votes and hence influence, were weighted according to size of membership.  RYA replied that this was generally the case since smaller MNAs may share seats when at times RYA may have two seats out of the 40 total."

Bob reply: My interpretation (which may be wrong) is that the RYA get 2 votes of the 40, yet smaller nations get effectively half a vote. There has been a view banded around that the RYA may be hostile to Cats but there are enough Pro-Cat nations in the ISAF to keep them in the Olympics (and may be in the youth worlds). This may not be the case if the RYA are particularly influential and remain negative in their view of Cats. I think UKCRA were finding out how much influence the RYA have.

Anyone know what the point of the UKCRA question was? I ask because if they want the RYA's own policies "weighted according to size of membership" cats and boards will get little attention and the RYA will spend most of its time concentrating on cruiser/racer or offshore yachts, which is where most sailors hang out.

Bob reply: My interpretation (which may be wrong) is that the RYA have 100,000 members but no one looks to see what sort of boat they sail wrt how much influence in ISAF the RYA have.


"UKCRA produced a scorecard matrix that had already been used to go through this process and that clearly showed multihulls come out as the top scoring class which best satisfies the requirements of the above criteria."


Interesting - was the scorecard created by an unbiased source? Was it filled in by an unbiased source? Where did the info used to complete it obtained from?

 

Bob reply: I think this scorecard shows how successful that the recent youth catamaran sailors from the RYA training programme have been at medalling on the world stage. From a small group they have done fantastically well. It is ironic that if the RYA continue to de-emphasise Cat Sailing in the Olympics that none of these talented sailors will get the chance to compete in the Olympics. I see by the way that the Hobie 16 Worlds are ongoing at present and that the UK has no representation. I think that this is a direct result of little support from the RYA - despite the fact that the Glovers would have stood a very good chance of taking Gold.

..........................................

 

By the way, at least some cat sailors have said (on the Oz Cat Sailor forum) that they have been signing the petition repeatedly using all their different email addresses. Not good stuff, it really must hurt the credibility of the petition.

Bob reply: Yes understood, but this is true for all E-petitions. There is little that you can do to stop this. We have exceeded 2200 votes and I suspect that multiple voting does not impact it by more than 10-15%. The international voting is also interesting, which somewhat short sightedly, I had not anticipated. UKCRA have done a breakdown to show the demographic location of the voters, but ".com" dominates so it is not very satisfactory.


Cheers

Bob

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Post Options Post Options   Quote catmandoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 07 at 11:03am

"moles "

Yup some of them are pretty obvious - bigcat with his harking back to RYA partyline after a couple of throwaway matey empathetic comments

If anyone thinks the RYA are too naive to enter into this debate under psuedonyms I applaud your innocence ,

 

However with all the off topic lengthy posts (from historical forumites )  and folks falling for them this topic is getting too convoluted .and is becomming a "yawn " to read .

Folks must try to keep to the point and post any other related matters elsewhere .

Its in danger of losing momentum

We have the petition , but we need more to get our support behind , UKCRA need to start enrolling every cat sailor in uk as personal members and become more internet savy - guess I'm repeating myself ,

 

If not UKCRA someone else, see from minutes it was UKCRA asking all the questions .

 

 



Edited by catmandoo
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BarneyS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 07 at 12:33pm

+++++++++++++++

"moles" discussion

+++++++++++++++

Yet again you guys should try and get your facts right before making silly postings.

I am not an RYA "mole". I am connected to the RYA through being a personal member (as I hope other UK sailors posting here are), a Dinghy Instructor and finally as a member of one RYA affiliated sailing club (again I hope other UK sailors fall into this category).  I have no other connection to the organisation.

The views posted in my previous post were entirely my own judgements on a now farcical situation sadly fuelled by inaccurate rumours posted on this forum.

Yes, the RYA should have handled this issue better - clearly they should have spotted the "live" potential PRIOR to making the submissions to ISAF, however in my humble opinion the cat sailing community need to take a long hard look at their actions over the last few weeks BEFORE criticising others.

Good sailing to all!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Worthy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 07 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by BarneyS

Yet again you guys should try and get your facts right before making silly postings.



Woooahh, calm down, all I said was that it was a suspicion which in my mind is far from an accusation, but I apologise if I offended.

Thank you for confirming your position.

 



Edited by Worthy
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sailor Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 07 at 3:32pm

Re; moles discussion

I'm not a mole either!  I'm a personal member of the RYA, a member of an RYA club, and have done some coaching, race management and dinghy class association activity.

My kids have been through class training and RYA training at both junior and youth level for dinghies.  I've sailed cats (mainly when I was in my youth), dinghies, cruisers and done some yacht racing.

Please don't assume that everyone who disagrees with you is an RYA official!

One point on training - most of the junior and youth dinghy classes run their own training programmes through the year, year after year, catering for all skill levels, and cooperating with the RYA resources - they don't just leave it up to the RYA to do everything. 

 

 

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Worthy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 07 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by Sailor Pete

Re; moles discussion

I'm not a mole either!  I'm a personal member of the RYA, a member of an RYA club, and have done some coaching, race management and dinghy class association activity.

My kids have been through class training and RYA training at both junior and youth level for dinghies.  I've sailed cats (mainly when I was in my youth), dinghies, cruisers and done some yacht racing.

Please don't assume that everyone who disagrees with you is an RYA official!

Thank you for confirming this.


Originally posted by Sailor Pete

One point on training - most of the junior and youth dinghy classes run their own training programmes through the year, year after year, catering for all skill levels, and cooperating with the RYA resources - they don't just leave it up to the RYA to do everything. 

 

BHCCA do a lot of work on youth and junior sailing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sailor Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 07 at 4:13pm

Hi Worthy

You say "BHCCA do a lot of work on youth and junior sailing".  That's good to hear, so I've just looked at the BHCCA website and the training page only mentions one weekend of training, although there are three on the calendar - that doesn't seem like "a lot".

By comparison, have a look at the Topper class for example http://www.gbrtopper.co.uk/ under "Training" and see what they're doing - there's load of class training as well as RYA stuff.  It's a similar picture for Mirror, Cadet, Optimist, Feva, 420, 29er and all the Lasers.

It's not surprising that at junior and youth level (at least), the sailors seem to want to learn, and the dinghy classes are working and investing to satisfy that demand, both independently and with the RYA.  There doesn't seem to be so much evidence of that from the cat classes.  Maybe the reality is that cat sailing is more suitable for the 18+ year olds? 

 

   

 

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