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YouthSailing, the RYA and Catamarans

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Stuart O View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: YouthSailing, the RYA and Catamarans
    Posted: 02 Oct 07 at 8:07pm

Spot on English Dave.

We are debating inclusion rather than exclusion. Sailing is a cross sectional sport.

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SoggyDoggie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyDoggie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 07 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

At our club WYC which is one of the busiest clubs in the UK we have very active dinghy, multi & windsurfing members. The windsurfers never race on the course.

I believe this situation is typical the length and breadth of the country; there are of course exceptions but I am sure this situation if reflected at most clubs.

I expect windsurfing is less club based with more nomadic participants leading to the situation that if you use major events as your metric you get a skewed view of what is really goung on in terms of participation at grass roots.

Hi Rick,

I think your last paragraph is so relevant. I hadn't thought  of that. I also concur with your comments about windsurfer racing in the paragraphs before.

In my part of the country, the windsurfers tend to be an ageing bunch, many of whom started 30 years ago. Nowadays, younger folk have taken to kite-boarding, which has become the "in" thing to do. But so far, no racing.

I was once told (by a respected member of the RYA) that an audience is as important to windsurfers, as anything else. They will "reach" to and fro, and when they realise no one is watching, they'll come in. Moreover, they are very selective of the conditions. For example, they run scared of an offshore wind. Well, in my locality at least.

The surprise is that there don't seem to be any bespoke windsurfer clubs, though WYC might be an exception.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote mikeward Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 07 at 10:00pm

My club Pentewan Sands SC agreed today to write to the RYA expressing dismay at their stance and requesting a change in policy. I trust other clubs will be doing the same. By the way we are a Cat club that welcomes monos, oh! and windsurfers err and Kite Surfers who love the beach in a SE blow.

www.pssc.org.uk

Cornwall - 2 coasts and one big ocean
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 07 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by SoggyDoggie

[QUOTE=Guest#260] 

Hi Rick,

I think your last paragraph is so relevant. I hadn't thought  of that. I also concur with your comments about windsurfer racing in the paragraphs before.

However, any personal comments from a limited viewpoint must also be balanced by the FACT that there are more boards racing at the national UKWA and RYA events, than there are cats racing at national titles.

I take issue with Rick's idea that a windsurfer who races regional events is not a "grass roots" sailor. If they are out training or sailing three weekends and doing a regional event the fourth, surely they are as valid as someone who just did club events each week. Don't forget, boards are so easy to rig that many windsurfers windsurf during the week when boats are not to be seen, but they don't say "boaties never sail".

In my part of the country, the windsurfers tend to be an ageing bunch, many of whom started 30 years ago.

But of course the RYA cannot be so parochial. They have to look at the true picture, which shows title fleets of 88 JUNIORS AND YOUTH on Techno boards, 20 or so YOUTH on RSX boards, and 35 in Open JUNIORS, plus all the T15 kids.

Nowadays, younger folk have taken to kite-boarding, which has become the "in" thing to do. But so far, no racing.

Incorrect. There are enough "younger folk" in windsurfing to make the Junior board the =8th most popular of all sailing classes, in terms of competitors at the nationals. And that's smaller than the feeder class of T15.

The Youth/Junior board nationals attracted about as many entries than the two Youth cats (Dragoon and H16) and the two most popular cats overall (Dart and Sprint) COMBINED - and yet you are just ignoring them.

Imagine how much you would complain if someone just ignored a 130+ strong Junior/Youth cat fleet and said "no kids sail cats". You are doing exactly that to boards.

Your remarks are factually incorrect. Ignoring fleets of 130+ kid's boards is silly.


I was once told (by a respected member of the RYA) that an audience is as important to windsurfers, as anything else. They will "reach" to and fro, and when they realise no one is watching, they'll come in.

This is complete rubbish. For a start, many  modern windsurfers tend to sail in stronger winds, which means sailing mainly in winter when there are fewer people on the beach as an audience. if an audience was what they needed they would sail in light winds. Many of the racers sail twilights when there are fewer people out to watch them.

Furthermore, earlier you have attacked windsurfers for being invisible . When they are seen you say they are playing to an audience, when they are not seen you say they mustn't exist and therefore should not be catered for. Please try to use some logic.

I wonder if that RYA member windsurfed? I hear one dumb bunny from the RYA has a hatred of windsurfers because he feels they aren't real racing - he's wrong and I understand he's never tried it and therefore has no idea.

It's amusing that the very same RYA honchos you earlier accused of being out of touch and ignorant are now held up by you as being so wise that they even know what motivates other sailors. If you think they are that smart, then surely you must respect their decision to dump the cats?

Moreover, they are very selective of the conditions. For example, they run scared of an offshore wind. Well, in my locality at least.

And in my locality, the cat clubs and regattas stop racing in winds the dinghies still go out in, and the boards relish*. Does that mean the cats should get dumped from the Games and Youth Worlds? Hell NO!!

The surprise is that there don't seem to be any bespoke windsurfer clubs, though WYC might be an exception.

There are windsurfer clubs from the West Pennines to London, to Minnis Bay and the Clyde. The windsurfers have their own entire bespoke national organisation, which unlike some specialist organisations actually runs things like a national circuit with hundreds of racers. It works with the organisers of events like Fat Face which attracts 300-500 boardsailers to compete (PS I didn't count them in my numbers of windsurfers at national events....that's like ignoring Texel in a cat count but it seemed best to be modest).



It's bizarre but depressing that a debate that started off as defending the rights of one discipline has now become an attack on another, and it's an attack that has no logical or factual basis apart from bias - the same bias that cat sailors accuse others of suffering. That's sad.
 

* and it's not because of a low standard of racing - the trophy for our cat club's biggest race has the names of the winners of about 7 Tornado olympic medals on it. Our biggest local regatta is normally attended by world champs in Tornadoes, F18s, A Class and sometimes H16s.


Edited by Chris 249
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SoggyDoggie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyDoggie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 07 at 11:07pm

Chris 249,

Are you a schoolmaster?

I mean, all that red ink!

Also, do you have a sense of humour?



Edited by SoggyDoggie
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 07 at 12:27am
Yes, when I read something funny. However, the only joke in your posts is that fact that you personally abused someone who proposed axing your discipline (see page 6) and now you propose axing someone else's.


Edited by Chris 249
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hurricane View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hurricane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 07 at 12:51am
chris can i ask which club you are at as I'd like to know what trophy that is..... I understand if you want to keep quiet as to your home ground...
lifes to short to sail slow boats!

RIP Olympic Tornado 1976-2007
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 07 at 1:07am
Kurnell Cat Club's "Cock of the Bay" trophy in Sydney.

It's been won (from memory) by Cairns and Anderson (Bronze, LA); Bundy and Forbes (Silver, Sydney); Booth and Forbes (bronze, Barcelona) and Booth and  Landy (Silver Atlanta). I think there may be an A Class world champ or two there as well.




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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 07 at 8:04am
Originally posted by SoggyDoggie

I was once told (by a respected member of the RYA) that an audience is as important to windsurfers, as anything else. They will "reach" to and fro, and when they realise no one is watching, they'll come in. Moreover, they are very selective of the conditions. For example, they run scared of an offshore wind. Well, in my locality at least.

The surprise is that there don't seem to be any bespoke windsurfer clubs, though WYC might be an exception.

And I was once told that Father Christmas came down the chimney and delivered my presents. What an absurd statement.

Given that boards usually operate without safety boat cover and that in case of breakage, it is impossible to paddle for any distance upwind in a decent breeze, being "scared of an offshore wind" is very sensible.

There certainly were windsurfer clubs. I belonged to one for several years that ran it's own weekly racing. I'm not sure it exists any more but I'd be very surprised if there weren't others. 

 

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Stuart O View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 07 at 8:17am

And all this in house bickering is what the RYA want and at the start of this DEBATE we DIDN'T and still DON'T. This is not the palce to be ditching Board, Cats or Monohull sailors.

It was a healthy debate about inclusion and SHOULD remain so.

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