YouthSailing, the RYA and Catamarans

Originally posted by Scooby_simon Originally posted by Guest#260 That's my point; people who don't vote deserve the govenrnmet they get ...   Exactly, I would suggest most people on here are members of a sailing or yacht club; thus (I assume) they are affiliate members of the RYA'; Thus they have the right to be fairly represented by the RYA.  Neither did I....infact I VOTED against them so does that give me the right to complain about them? IMO CERTAINLY IMO the RYA have not fairly represented the view of the MAJORITY of sailors that feel there should be a catamaran at the olympics.  By NOT proposing a catamaran, they have not represented the views of the nation's sailors. I did not vote for this govt. but I have the right to complain about them.

Originally posted by Worthy Originally posted by Chris 249 It sounds like a good effort, but you're still relying on monohull people to spend years to get the kids to "a certain level of ability". That still means you're taking kids out of monos, doesn't it? Isn't it understandable that the mono people may be annoyed at losing kids to people who have not been devoting years to teaching them, but have come along later when many of the hard yards have already been done and the kids are about to reach Youth level?   Some other programmes seem to have foundered on the fact that by the time the kids have spent most of their formative years in dinghies, they prefer dinghies to cats or boards. One of our biggest cat builders noticed that this was a problem. Get them early, and surely they're much more likely to stay in cats. Chris, I agree with what you are saying, but you have unwittingly stumbled upon one of the biggest problems cat sailors have.  You say that mono sailors may be annoyed at losing kids to cats.  I am sure that this is the case. However, it shouldn't be the case!  Cats are just another form of boat.  There should be no difference between a kid moving into the 420, 29er or the youth cat (then there would be no feeling of losing kids).  But there is.  There is an "us and them" mindset that a number of people have (some cat sailors included) that needs to be removed and then the whole process will run more freely.

Yes, it would be wonderful to get rid of the "us and them" mentality. As far as I can see, 'round here it's something the cats have more than monos, but that may be a hangover from the early days of catting when many things were different. The cats are certainly not open to new forms of sailing themselves - our cat clubs are not very windsurfer or kite friendly.

If "cats are just boats" then why are cat sailors annoyed about the cats being dropped from the Youth Worlds and Games? If we didn't have some preference for "our" type of boat, then the cat sailors would be saying "well, cats are just boats and skiffs are just boats, so it's fine by us if the skiffs replace the cats". Sure, we want to have all sorts represented but in that case why not represent all sorts in training fleets as well as senior and Youth fleets?

While you're dead right that we are all sailors, it runs both ways - sailors from all disciplines should contribute evenly towards training Juniors and not leave it to one discipline. I sail boards, dinghies, yachts and cats, and it seems that junior training may be left far too much to the dinghies in many places.

Dinghy sailors like to see dinghy classes grow, just like cat sailors like cat classes to grow. It's understandable when dinghy sailors put years of effort into training kids, that they don't really enjoy seeing them move into cats instead of dinghies.


Edited by Chris 249

To paraphrase a US president “Ask not what the sailor can do for your (class of) boat but what your boat can do for the sailor”. 

 

No – the representations of the RYA to ISAF are not a “kick in the teeth” to the Cat classes as the emotive language seems to imply.  And perhaps time for a sad old paying parent to intervene.

 

It would be as well for cat sailors to consider the question (or answer) in regard to the total “good” of all sailors and the perspective of the sailors themselves, a choice they freely make (always taking into account their parents who write the cheques and provide the transport and admin etc!).  A few propositions would not go amiss.

 

• Youth (teenage) sailors prefer to sail with larger numbers of like minded people.
•  While they have less chance of winning in competitive classes they, and their parents, realise that they are more likely to find top quality training in the monohull classes not because the coaches are necessarily better but because their compatriots (peer group) are there to provide the absolutely essential requirement of other sailors to sail with and against. 
• The monohull international racing programme in Europe is a major attraction to the sailors
• Youth sailors, however good, and however much they rate themselves, (and teenagers are not renowned for underselling themselves!) are still at the very beginning of their sailing education.  Cat sailing is regarded as a specialist part of the sport of sailing and to specialise in it too early in life is not thought the correct career move
• There is an informal youth sailing rating system that rates Cat sailing as a bit of a cop out – they say if you can’t hack it in the Laser, 420 or 29er you move to a Cat – and teenagers do not want to be in the “dissed” class if they can help it.

 

Thus to summarise in marketing terms I would suggest that the Cat classes have not captured their market.

 

In regard to the “logical” arguments and from a parents viewpoint.

 

• Sailing racing is still a very elite sport and if the argument is that Cat sailors go onto Olympic Tornado sailing it is difficult to see how accessibility is encouraged by the annual £100,000 campaign costs.  (An argument that applies equally to the Star and Yngling which results in GBR having only one Star sailing and a couple  of Ynglings)  Hardly something which sailing can be proud of and that meets the Olympic ideal and certainly something that virtually any parent will walk away from however rich they are
• A choice of classes have to be made out of a number of competing classes – choices are always hard but invariably have to be made and basing them on the greatest good for the greatest number is a difficult argument to refute
• I understood that the money that goes to support Junior and Youth sailing does not come from RYA members’ pockets but from the lottery – so it should be a big thank you to everyone who buys a ticket.  (One of) The primary purpose(s) is to help GBR sailors win medals at the Olympics and other validated Intl events – it is not there to provide a handy promotional fund for whichever class happens to be around at the time
• While no youth class is cheap to sail competitively Cats are very much more expensive to run a campaign with not to mention that many inland clubs do not allow Cats on their waters.  
• Youth sailors in the Cat class(es) make up a very small proportion of the total number of (youth) sailors – money should be following the sailors not the boats.
• In choosing a class to sail one can either be a “small fish in a big pool or a big fish in a small pool”.   My view is that to “become a better sailor” one needs to be where the action is in the big pool.  Of course the chances of winning are much less but you will become a better sailor whatever happens.  Of course the concomitant recognition is much less, which can be a problem for some, however learning to cope with failure is an essential skill in all walks of life and a sailor will certainly get the chance to learn that skill in the well supported classes.  One really can’t produce a “shark” (of the sailing world) in the village pond however hard one tries.
• Sailors and parents make their choices – Cats have been around for enough time for that choice to be evident – sailors and parents have just not made that choice in significant numbers

I'd just like to say "good one" to the cat sailors who spent their time teaching
kids (in whatever boats) and also a general thank you to the many cat sailors
here who have reacted very well to posts from some of us. When I thought I
should speak up about some issues I thought I may get burned, but all the
cat sailors here have reacted very well.

petition link below

 

should have one on every page