Vago vs..?

I would seriously look at the RS Vareo, it appears to be the closest to what you are after.

I'd say if your helming can hack it, then either boat will be fine on the sea, provided you choose your weather. As for boat speed, they are probebly close enough to not make any odds to the "sensation" of speed, and if you are racing, helming ability will make more difference to your speed round the course than PY. At 11 stone you are going to be on the light side for either boat once the breeze fills in. If Frensham Pond is your nearest club, they have a recognized list of boats they run class racing for, so it might be worth looking at them first. I'm sure details will be on the Frensham website.

I have sailed all the boats mentioned.

The 3000 is fine if you are fairly short and only have a sort crew as the boom is fairly low. I haven't tried it single handed but as they said I don't really see a problem.

I found the vareo fairly easy to sail but a bit dull upwind. Better downwind with the kite up but not very exciting. Probably big enough for a passenger, but there won't be much for them to do unless you let them have the mainsheet and kite sheet.

The rs500 is designed for lightweight/youths, I spent quite some time talking to Nick Peters about it. Again you probably could single hand it but it is designed as a double hander.

The 200 and 400 are not that easy to sail single handed. They are hiking boats that really need 2 people to keep flat. The 200 less then the 400 though.

The Vago does actually work quite well as a compromise. It is fairly easy to single hand, with either main and kite or all 3 sails. It easily takes 24 stone/160 kilos 2 up and is still quite fast. The developers with some rock stars sailing it got the PY to about 995 or a bit lower, but not many people who sail it would be able to do this as it is mostly sailed by beginners or returners.

As a first boat it is probably the best choice if you can ignore the prejudice about it being a plastic rather than GRP.

If you do go for one then I would advise getting the XD rig with a standard mainsail too. Use the standard first as the XD sail is fairly difficult to get right and does overpower easily until you can trapeze and helm.

Try looking at all the various forums for the boats to see what people think of them. There is a huge amount of prejudice about choice of boat with lots of people thinking my boat/design is the best. So take all advice with a bit of salt and make your own decision.

dwh99, I'd be interested to hear in what respect you think the Vago is better than a Laser 3000, except that being plastic you can maybe abuse it more (tho an L3k is pretty bomb-proof)? I'm leaving aside the fact that even secondhand it will cost about £3000 more than a secondhand Laser 3k.

For my money the L3k is faster (whatever the PY says (and I've raced a Vago XL a couple of times), lighter, more stable, and with off-the boom sheeting and a gnav now permitted is at least as roomy. It also feels more like a pukka racer.

The only advantage I can see for the Vago is that it's cheaper to make, but that's to Laser's benefit, not the owner's.

Merlinboy

Only if they don't suggest one of the plastic boats first. Almost everyone on here seems to be against them, but there are a very large number of them sailing. They do fulfill a need. They are easy to rig and sail, need very little maintenance and are usually designed to be comfortable to potter about in with some excitement as the wind picks up. None of them are designed as out and out race boats, but why should they be, there are lots of other designs that do that.

I wouldn't take any of the high performance skiffs out for a potter around in. They are all far to full on for that, they are also mostly quite uncomfortable in lightish winds, but any of the plastic boats would be fine for that. I know there are non plastic boats that are also fine for pottering etc. but they tend to be more complicated than the new designs.

Medway Maniac

I don't think I said the vago was better than the 3000 just that the 3000 was smaller.

I haven't sailed the v3000 version of the laser 3000 so can't comment on that, but  it sounds like there is more room than before.

I am not sure being faster is necessarily a good thing in a returners boat. Lighter yes, more stable is debatable. I have had no problem sailing a vago standing up most of the time, but did have in the 3000, maybe thats just me.

Also the 3000 can't be raced single handed according to the rules, but the vago can, so does that count as better or just different?

So you have to decide what you want out of a boat there are lots of choices out there.

If you want the real answer as to why I think the vago would be a better choice for me and only me, is that I and my helm/crew are too heavy for it. It was great fun in a force 5 and above, but not in anything less. There isn't a thwart to sit on in lighter winds so you have lie in some very strange positions to get the trim and balance correct. If you are light and small enough then fine go for it.