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Pierre View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Apr 07 at 6:46am

Originally posted by redback

A "Clubman 5o" is a great idea.  Good in all wind conditions, fast enough to sail the angles downwind, pivoting board for shallow waters, adjustable enough to be fun in all conditions, capable of carrying 180kg and not to cramped for a tall person.  Hang on aren't we talking Osprey?

DOH !!! 

 
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redback View Drop Down
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Posts: 1502 		Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 07 at 7:28pm
A "Clubman 5o" is a great idea.  Good in all wind conditions, fast enough to sail the angles downwind, pivoting board for shallow waters, adjustable enough to be fun in all conditions, capable of carrying 180kg and not to cramped for a tall person.  Hang on aren't we talking Osprey?
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Posts: 339 		Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 07 at 11:10am

I have two pennies to shove in- a "clubman" strict OOD 505 with a carbon rig retailing for about £7000 including reasonable rags would fit the 'gap' for boats single trap and heavier sailors.

In terms of the 59er with a trap- it is a pretty wide boat, probably not the best trapeziing side deck shape along the hull, and a mast which was specifically lightened so as NOT to take a trap.

But I reckon there will be a 39er at some point which may hit your numbers and wish list. Brit's need to think international again  and get a bit out of the predominant UK SMODs IMHO.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 07 at 11:15pm

Originally posted by redback

I think its not enough to just make a boat lighter or put more sail on her.  That only improves the performance a bit.  The improved speed will require a different hull shape to maximise the effect. 

I'll remind you of that, Redback, should you complain about the PY on my V3k this season. I'll be taking a voluntary 20 point hit, which should meet your criterion.

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landlocked View Drop Down
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Posts: 222 		Post Options Post Options   Quote landlocked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 07 at 10:07pm
It depends on how you look at it though because a twelve footer has a fixed 12ft bowsprit therfore you could(or they would) say that it is 24ft i.e. 8 mt approx. and would tell you to bugger off! I'll stick to the cherub thanks only one wire and nobody's managed to get out on that yet!
Cherub 2535 "Eggbert the Nasty" Soon to be for sale PM for Details
Cherub 2657 "Slippery When Wet"

Don't sail fly Cherub
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FireballNeil View Drop Down
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Posts: 654 		Post Options Post Options   Quote FireballNeil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 07 at 9:58pm
So you could sail a 12footer but not a 5oh! HEHE see what British Waterways have to say about that!
Neil

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landlocked View Drop Down
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Posts: 222 		Post Options Post Options   Quote landlocked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 07 at 9:56pm
[/QUOTE]

Well I have! Quite a large number of them around the midlands it would
seem...
[/QUOTE]

you are not even allowed to sail a 505 on our water we have a Brithish Waterways imposed limit of 5mt. (we're in the midlands by the way)

Edited by landlocked
Cherub 2535 "Eggbert the Nasty" Soon to be for sale PM for Details
Cherub 2657 "Slippery When Wet"

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redback View Drop Down
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Posts: 1502 		Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 07 at 6:50pm
I think its not enough to just make a boat lighter or put more sail on her.  That only improves the performance a bit.  The improved speed will require a different hull shape to maximise the effect.  The 4000 is just a little full around the mast and not quite flat enough near the stern to get to 850 when just made lighter.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 07 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by lozza

If you make boats too light, they don't don't last as long (look at the 470's).


But the 470 could be 60% lighter *and* last far longer if it were properly engineered. At the time it was designed few people really knew better, but with modern materials and construction techniques you could make far lighter and far longer lived boats. The 505 is much better, having far fewer internal restrictions, but you could probably improve things by freeing up rules 5.4.1 and 5.6.3 and some of the measurement diagram.
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lozza View Drop Down
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Posts: 262 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lozza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 07 at 3:24pm

Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC

You can still put a smaller kite on the 505, you don't need to go for the largest size to be the quickest. From my memory, and I'm sure Lozza will correct me if I'm wrong but we went quite quick in one reggatta using more of a reaching kite and sailing angles instead of straight downwind. Also there was another boat with as small, if not smaller kite battling with us for positions at the front of the fleet.

I think that was down to the people sailing with the monster kite not knowing about downwind angles and the course consisting of tight reaches as well.

For 505's to sail dead downwind, the wind must be really light

At big events where the course's are windward leeward, the downwind angles are pretty close to assymetric classes in anything over 7-8 knots and even below this they're not dead downwind as the extra area doesn't really help.

At the hayling worlds, someone had brought along a modified 5oh which he had designed.  Same deck moulding but:

Carbon Rig
Fully Battened Main
Self Tacker
Remoulded cockpit

To be honest, it looked cr*p next to the latest rondar boats and was probably slower too.  Not sure how to drop the 27kg's as medway reckons, the most corrector i've ever known was a kyrwood with 12kg.  The germans who had it didn't like it because the construction was too flimsy in places and not very stiff and they were much more confident about their rondar.

If you make boats too light, they don't don't last as long (look at the 470's).  There are 505's which are 10 years old still capable of coming in the top 10 at international events with a new set of sails and foils.

505 sails pitch over

Life's a reach, then you gybe
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