Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Sailing Backwards |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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There are a number of scenarios in which a starboard tack boat may be deemed to have infringed a port tack boat. In particular rules 15, 16.1, 16.2 may all provide the port tack boat with some hope. Gordon |
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Gordon
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Garry ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
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There is no requirement to state which rules have been broken on the protest form. Furthermore just because the protestor states rule 18 was broken doesn't stop the protest committee finding that it was rule 10. While I agree the set-up tends to make it adversarial there is also the element of an investigating committee. What would be the outcome if boat A on starboard was hit by boat B on port (no other boats around and plenty of navigable water). Boat A only knows the IRPCS and that if you're hit shout protest. Boat B is a rules expert pushing his luck. Are you suggesting that boat B would be exonerated at a hearing? Of course B should just do his turns and get on with racing but how often do we see that nowadays! |
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Garry
Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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Certainly not. The point is that there are a million facts but only a few are relevant. To know which those are requires a knowledge of the rules. Read RRS appendix M, which describes the recommended procedure for a protest. One party is described as making a case, the other defending it. How can you possibly make a case if you don't know the rules? How do you even fill in the form which is normally required? The protest system is based on adversarial Anglo-Saxon law, where the two sides argue their case. There may be a "Judge". There is no "Investigating Magistrate". |
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Garry ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
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I won't deny that knowing the rules helps, but saying the other boat infringed 18.2 because he tacked inside the two lengths circle is really no different from saying that the other boat tacked under you close to the mark and then luffed up forcing you to tack or hit you. Its up to the protest committee to determine if the facts support the other boat tacking inside the two boat length or if there is any doubt... Your explanation suggest a degree of making the facts fit the rules, protest committees are actually quiet savy at spoting that sort of thing. The danager with not having a good working knowledge of the rules is lodging a protest when in fact you were in the wrong (and I've seen that a few times). Edited by Garry |
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Garry
Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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Water. |
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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FreshScum ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 27 Apr 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 99 |
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I agree with Stefan. While on the subject of sailing backwards; is it backwards through the water or relative to the land which 'counts'? Thinking about the presence of tide/current.
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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I'm not sure that is true even in theory. Protests are about making your case. Therefore you need to understand what case you are making. The facts found will be related to the facts reported. You only know which facts matter, and therefore should be reported, if you understand, at least to some degree, the application of the rules to the situation. |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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I could never resist flattery, Garry. So here goes If a windward overlapped boat starts sailing backwards by backing a sail you do not have to give room to keep clear. As windward overlapped boat she already had an obligation to keep clear, that obligation remains even if the rule that gives her that obligation is no longer the same. Rule 15 only applies when you acquire right of way by your own actions, like sailing into an overlapped position to leeward of another boat. If she establishes an overlap to windward she has acquired an obligation to keep clear by her own actions and you do not have to give room to keep clear. Hope this is clear
Gordon |
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Gordon
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Garry ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
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Parties to the protest knowing the rules should not, in theory, affect the outcome of a protest it should be decided on the facts found.
In most cases the reversing boat is to windward and therefore required to keep clear and as long as you don't alter course you don't have to give them the opportunity to keep clear as their actions have placed them as give way boat. (hope you followed that, probably gordon could express it better) The exception would be if they were stopped (not making sternway)and you just ran into their stern. |
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Garry
Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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And even then if they are stopped you have to give them time to respond to your luffing.
I find looking for a gap near the right end of the line is better. |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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