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Class Redevelopment
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Calum_Reid View Drop Down
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Posts: 59 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Class Redevelopment
    Posted: 26 Dec 05 at 11:55pm
Originally posted by Chris 249


Surely, either you are developing (so you are going faster and old
boats get obsolete) or you aren't (in which case old boats stay
competitive but you don't progress).


It cannot be logical to say "yes, we are getting significantly faster but that doesn't mean that old boats are left behind".



I think that it has been possible for the chreubs (seen as they've been talked about) to do this because they have changed there rig which will allow all the boats to get faster not just new hulls.
So yes cherubs have developed and yes they havent made older boats obselete.

I think im a convert already and i havent even sailed 1 yet!
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 05 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by Wave Rider

We were saying that hull design over 5 years or so won't lose you the nationals, but over say thirty, unless you have done LOADS of mod's, it is going to be VERY hard to win the nationals.


Sure, and I was taking it to the extreme by referring to 30 year old boats. But some development-class sailors take it to the same extreme by saying that most or all SMODS lose their competitiveness quickly, when there are some SMODs and ODs that last  as highly competitively units for years.
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timnoyce View Drop Down
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Posts: 1991 		Post Options Post Options   Quote timnoyce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 05 at 10:17pm
yeah, their new boat is a stunner 

Edited by timnoyce
BEARFOOT DESIGN
Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb
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jpbuzz591 View Drop Down
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Posts: 793 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jpbuzz591 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 05 at 8:27pm
dont we all want 2
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Isis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2753 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 05 at 8:14pm
trading up for a younger fitter model 
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jpbuzz591 View Drop Down
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Posts: 793 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jpbuzz591 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 05 at 8:02pm
Fran, just noticed, how come your selling Wham?
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Wave Rider View Drop Down
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Posts: 909 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Wave Rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 05 at 7:56pm
I meant a thirty yr old Cherub like ours is unlikely to win nationals, i have no doubt that a OD can win if the sailor is good enough, many one designs are old and do well, i didn't dipute that.
           -[Franko]-
Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club
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kasey3000 View Drop Down
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Posts: 401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kasey3000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 05 at 3:48pm

Originally posted by Wave Rider

We were saying that hull design over 5 years or so won't lose you the nationals, but over say thirty, unless you have done LOADS of mod's, it is going to be VERY hard to win the nationals.

Uhum......may I just list 4 results from a fleet I sail in?

3rd out of 24 boats @ the Nationals in 2002.....6th out of 21 @ the 2003 nats.....8th/21 at the nats in 2004.....and this year 5th/20 boats at the nats.....

These results were in a boat that this year was 37 years old......Kestrel 668!!!!

the results weren't as good in 2003/2004 as the sails were shot and the helm and crew were both overweight in very light winds.  In 2005 the boat had a new suit of sails and helm and crew were within the Kestrel optimum crew range...

So....a 30+ year old boat can be very fast...I do believe there is a 25 year old Solo that is still very fast...and the only thing that had received over the years are new sails, stiffer mast section and being dry stored!

Of course....a Development class can be different....but not impossible!!!
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 05 at 12:02pm
In general the pace of change in most development classes isn't so fast that the boats get outdated faster than they get old and tired in one design classes. Every now and then though you'll get a breakthrough design and then all bets are off and there's a sudden jump in class growth and a whole bunch of cheaper secondhand boats.

Another factor which leans to stability is that in a SMOD you get a new boat and transfer all the fast settings of the old one and its up to pace in, what, two days. To get a new development boat tuned and up to pace, unless you do the sort of rigorous two boat tuning the IACC boys do, probably takes months, and even if you do it takes weeks, so even if you buy speed its not immediate speed, which is a bit of a pig if you want to win the travellers series...
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Wave Rider View Drop Down
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Posts: 909 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Wave Rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 05 at 12:01pm
We were saying that hull design over 5 years or so won't lose you the nationals, but over say thirty, unless you have done LOADS of mod's, it is going to be VERY hard to win the nationals.
           -[Franko]-
Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club
           RS600 933
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