New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: O wind, wind, wherefore art thou wind?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

O wind, wind, wherefore art thou wind?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
ellistine View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 762
Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: O wind, wind, wherefore art thou wind?
    Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 4:00pm
Advice and knowledge required again I'm afraid.

I want to know how to read the wind. I know you can't
actually see the wind but you can see the effect of the
wind. I know that it shifts and that some shifts help you
get to the mark quicker and some will make it take
longer. I've heard that sometimes the shifts follow a
pattern and you can predict them. Yer right!

I've heard non locals talk about the wind charactistics
of Portland Harbour. I've lived here all my life and I
only just realised the wind sock on the causeway pretty
much always points the same way (I also now know what
'prevailing' means). How do they all know this stuff?

So far in my short, but arguably illustrious sailing
career I've managed to develop a wind tactic that if I
can see the flag on the top mark and it's pointing
slightly to the right then that's the side to be on. It
points to the good side. I'm also starting to tell when
the boat isn't heading as high as it was. Possibly that's
a header. The difficulty is knowing whether to tack and
lose momentum or hang on a bit and see if the wind lifts
again.

Downwind is a complete mystery. Does the flag still point
to the good side or is it the opposite?

Then there's wind pressure. How do you know that wind is
traveling faster in one area than another?

During a 45 minute race I will generally spend 44 minutes
staring at the telltales. The other minute is mostly used
up trying to find marks and quick glances to make sure
I'm not about to hit anyone. I know I need to get my head
out of the boat and all that but where am I supposed to
be looking and what exactly am I looking for?

That will do for now...


Back to Top
Jamie600 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 14 Jun 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 718
Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamie600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 7:59pm

 

I think you've answered your own question by saying you need to get your head out of the boat. The easiest way to check the shifts is looking at your angle relative to other boats, this also works for checking if there is extra breeze elsewhere on the course. This will only tell you what's happening here and now, unless you are quite far down the fleet and can look way upwind to see what the leaders are doing. In terms of working out what's GOING to happen (far more important), I'm still struggling there myself!

RS600 1001
Back to Top
rogerd View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 25 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1076
Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 9:46pm
Try reading "wind Strategy"by Donald Houghton and Fiona Campbell. It goes into what the wind does in different situations and although it takes a bit of getting your head round I found it useful.
Back to Top
ham4sand View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 27 Jul 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 452
Post Options Post Options   Quote ham4sand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 10:23pm
high performance sailing by one of the bethwaites. pretty
heavy reading but is hp bible and has lots on wind strategy
etc...
John Hamilton
cherub 2645 - cheese before bedtime
cherub 3209 - anatidaephobia
laser 176847 - kiss this
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 10:28pm
This could be a long one.

Ist question. How to read the wind.

You may not be able to see it, but you can feel it, use your ears..
Watch the water., Look for obstacles and imagine how the wind will
funnel around them, venturi between, tumble over.. Stand on a cliff some
time and look down on the water in an offshore wind, watch how the
downdraft puffs fan out and realise why a favorable shift can be at two
opposite places at the same time.
Now dinghy folk use other techniques, compasses and the like, tic tacs,
tel tales which I have to confess I haven't got my head round and am still
using windsurf techniques which seem to work o.k. for me anyway.

Watching the fleet, if the boats all start to appear more side on then
you're being lifted if they all move more line astern you're being knocked.

If they are the other side of the course and you're wondering if you're still
ahead or behind, if there's more sea or land appearing in front of them as
you close you're ahead, if it's appearing from behind they have you.
(helps to know how you're doing relative..)

On flat water, you can get to tell if the aproaching gust is going to lift or
knock by watching it as it arrives, (this is a crew thing, just tell her she's
got to learn when a header or lift is approaching, then bollock her for
getting it wrong).

But fundamentally one thing to remember, don't necessarily go for the
boat to boat lift header thing to gain advantage over the crafts next to
you. Go for the tack which is taking you closest the mark.

Downhil what were headers are your friend, if it's lifting as you approach
the weather mark and the next mark is dead down wind then you gybe,

The books talk of oscillating shifts, and progressive shifts, it's more
complicated than that as your wind watching off the top of the cliffs will
show you.

But there are predictable factors that have high probability, like black
puffy rain clouds tending to produce starboard lifts as they pass, like the
summer sun tending to bring an onshore breeze round with it, like the
cliffs at lake garda tending to 'windbend' as the breeze venturis then
expands, like the wind wanting to pass from water on to land at right
angles and producing inshore lifts on the way out..

Experience is what does it and watching and learning from anyone who
bothers to write it down, but always personally evaluate, just because they
wrote the book doesn't always mean they know everything, there are
sooooo many variables..

If as i suspect, you're young and keen, keep a diary of venues and factors
as you go, record the why's, why you won, why you lost, that's what i
used to do, wish i had the damned thing now, long since lost I fear, I
should have written that advance tactics book I promised myself I'd do
one day.. too late now everythings changed..
Back to Top
ellistine View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 762
Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 11:04pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

If as i suspect, you're young and
keen


Mmm. Keen definitely. Young, 35? Not so sure but I
properly
wish I started all this at 4 rather than 34. I'll have to
blame the parents for that one.

I'll have to ask the 'crew' for some extra spending money
at the boat show next month. I've got some literature to
purchase.

Thanks Grumpf for the tips. There's some good ones in
there. Keep them coming!

Edited by ellistine
Back to Top
ellistine View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 762
Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.


Downhil what were headers are your friend, if it's lifting
as you approach the weather mark and the next mark is dead
down wind then you gybe


See this is where it gets a bit confusing. If we're
approaching the top mark on starboard and getting a nice
lift then the wind must be blowing slightly more from right
to left? Once we round the top mark then surely we stick
with it - actually no I can see it now. If we stick with it
we'll be on a run but if we gybe we'll be on more of a
reach and there for faster.
Back to Top
ellistine View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 762
Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 11:27pm
Of course I'm really waiting for Mr Jon Emmett to PM me and
offer to take us out for some top tuition at a special
'locals' discount rate!



Edited by ellistine
Back to Top
tmoore View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Nov 07
Location: Wales
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 880
Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 09 at 3:41am

one nice easy method of getting a general idea of whether there are any significant wind bends is to tack up the middle of the beat watching compass angles. If the angles start to change you know the wind is bending/ shifting around somewhere.

Incidentally, today while sailing the 300 in really shifty, gusty conditions it was too tricky to foot off and get speed for long enough before the wind shifted. In short I went into height mode. I managed to get on the wrong side of each shift etc. What do you do in this situation? Is it best to head to nearby boats and watch how they lift/head? Or simply to carry on straight through it all? Im wondering whether sailing the 300 towards wind bends (as opposed to tacking on the headers) is quicker due to the tacking time needed?

Landlocked in Africa
RS300 - 410
Firefly F517 - Nutshell
Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse
Back to Top
Neptune View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 09
Location: Berkshire United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1314
Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 09 at 9:14am
Or in similar circumstances in the 600 last night swing in and out like an acrobat and play the main sail continuously hoping that when you do get the odd tack in you didn't get youtself speeding off on a big header.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy