O wind, wind, wherefore art thou wind?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Banter
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URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5872
Printed Date: 11 Aug 25 at 3:53am
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Topic: O wind, wind, wherefore art thou wind?
Posted By: ellistine
Subject: O wind, wind, wherefore art thou wind?
Date Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 4:00pm
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Advice and knowledge required again I'm afraid.
I want to know how to read the wind. I know you can't actually see the wind but you can see the effect of the wind. I know that it shifts and that some shifts help you get to the mark quicker and some will make it take longer. I've heard that sometimes the shifts follow a pattern and you can predict them. Yer right! I've heard non locals talk about the wind charactistics of Portland Harbour. I've lived here all my life and I only just realised the wind sock on the causeway pretty much always points the same way (I also now know what 'prevailing' means). How do they all know this stuff? So far in my short, but arguably illustrious sailing career I've managed to develop a wind tactic that if I can see the flag on the top mark and it's pointing slightly to the right then that's the side to be on. It points to the good side. I'm also starting to tell when the boat isn't heading as high as it was. Possibly that's a header. The difficulty is knowing whether to tack and lose momentum or hang on a bit and see if the wind lifts again. Downwind is a complete mystery. Does the flag still point to the good side or is it the opposite? Then there's wind pressure. How do you know that wind is traveling faster in one area than another? During a 45 minute race I will generally spend 44 minutes staring at the telltales. The other minute is mostly used up trying to find marks and quick glances to make sure I'm not about to hit anyone. I know I need to get my head out of the boat and all that but where am I supposed to be looking and what exactly am I looking for? That will do for now... |
Replies:
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 7:59pm
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I think you've answered your own question by saying you need to get your head out of the boat. The easiest way to check the shifts is looking at your angle relative to other boats, this also works for checking if there is extra breeze elsewhere on the course. This will only tell you what's happening here and now, unless you are quite far down the fleet and can look way upwind to see what the leaders are doing. In terms of working out what's GOING to happen (far more important), I'm still struggling there myself! ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 9:46pm
| Try reading "wind Strategy"by Donald Houghton and Fiona Campbell. It goes into what the wind does in different situations and although it takes a bit of getting your head round I found it useful. |
Posted By: ham4sand
Date Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 10:23pm
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high performance sailing by one of the bethwaites. pretty
heavy reading but is hp bible and has lots on wind strategy etc... ------------- John Hamilton cherub 2645 - cheese before bedtime cherub 3209 - anatidaephobia laser 176847 - kiss this [FORSALE] |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 10:28pm
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This could be a long one.
Ist question. How to read the wind. You may not be able to see it, but you can feel it, use your ears.. Watch the water., Look for obstacles and imagine how the wind will funnel around them, venturi between, tumble over.. Stand on a cliff some time and look down on the water in an offshore wind, watch how the downdraft puffs fan out and realise why a favorable shift can be at two opposite places at the same time. Now dinghy folk use other techniques, compasses and the like, tic tacs, tel tales which I have to confess I haven't got my head round and am still using windsurf techniques which seem to work o.k. for me anyway. Watching the fleet, if the boats all start to appear more side on then you're being lifted if they all move more line astern you're being knocked. If they are the other side of the course and you're wondering if you're still ahead or behind, if there's more sea or land appearing in front of them as you close you're ahead, if it's appearing from behind they have you. (helps to know how you're doing relative..) On flat water, you can get to tell if the aproaching gust is going to lift or knock by watching it as it arrives, (this is a crew thing, just tell her she's got to learn when a header or lift is approaching, then bollock her for getting it wrong). But fundamentally one thing to remember, don't necessarily go for the boat to boat lift header thing to gain advantage over the crafts next to you. Go for the tack which is taking you closest the mark. Downhil what were headers are your friend, if it's lifting as you approach the weather mark and the next mark is dead down wind then you gybe, The books talk of oscillating shifts, and progressive shifts, it's more complicated than that as your wind watching off the top of the cliffs will show you. But there are predictable factors that have high probability, like black puffy rain clouds tending to produce starboard lifts as they pass, like the summer sun tending to bring an onshore breeze round with it, like the cliffs at lake garda tending to 'windbend' as the breeze venturis then expands, like the wind wanting to pass from water on to land at right angles and producing inshore lifts on the way out.. Experience is what does it and watching and learning from anyone who bothers to write it down, but always personally evaluate, just because they wrote the book doesn't always mean they know everything, there are sooooo many variables.. If as i suspect, you're young and keen, keep a diary of venues and factors as you go, record the why's, why you won, why you lost, that's what i used to do, wish i had the damned thing now, long since lost I fear, I should have written that advance tactics book I promised myself I'd do one day.. too late now everythings changed.. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 11:04pm
Mmm. Keen definitely. Young, 35? Not so sure but I properly wish I started all this at 4 rather than 34. I'll have to blame the parents for that one. I'll have to ask the 'crew' for some extra spending money at the boat show next month. I've got some literature to purchase. Thanks Grumpf for the tips. There's some good ones in there. Keep them coming! ------------- |
Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 11:25pm
See this is where it gets a bit confusing. If we're approaching the top mark on starboard and getting a nice lift then the wind must be blowing slightly more from right to left? Once we round the top mark then surely we stick with it - actually no I can see it now. If we stick with it we'll be on a run but if we gybe we'll be on more of a reach and there for faster. ------------- |
Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 26 Aug 09 at 11:27pm
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Of course I'm really waiting for Mr Jon Emmett to PM me and
offer to take us out for some top tuition at a special 'locals' discount rate!  ------------- |
Posted By: tmoore
Date Posted: 27 Aug 09 at 3:41am
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one nice easy method of getting a general idea of whether there are any significant wind bends is to tack up the middle of the beat watching compass angles. If the angles start to change you know the wind is bending/ shifting around somewhere. Incidentally, today while sailing the 300 in really shifty, gusty conditions it was too tricky to foot off and get speed for long enough before the wind shifted. In short I went into height mode. I managed to get on the wrong side of each shift etc. What do you do in this situation? Is it best to head to nearby boats and watch how they lift/head? Or simply to carry on straight through it all? Im wondering whether sailing the 300 towards wind bends (as opposed to tacking on the headers) is quicker due to the tacking time needed? ------------- Landlocked in Africa RS300 - 410 Firefly F517 - Nutshell Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse |
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 27 Aug 09 at 9:14am
Or in similar circumstances in the 600 last night swing in and out like an acrobat and play the main sail continuously hoping that when you do get the odd tack in you didn't get youtself speeding off on a big header. 
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Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 27 Aug 09 at 9:16am
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Wind Strategy is excellent, so is Start to Win, then also the newish Tactics, by Mark Rushall. Most important of all is to sail a lot, keep a diary/training log, then sell all the info to me ready for the contender worlds in Weymouth in 2011  ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: JohnW
Date Posted: 27 Aug 09 at 10:06am
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Interesting and usefull post GRF, but I though the oft quoted line above had been shown to be a myth. Quoted by Eric Twiname in "Start To Win", but debunked elswhere. Im sure there was a thread on it here a couple of years ago.
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