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Heavy Weights vs Light Weights
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MpHarris View Drop Down
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Posts: 141 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MpHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Heavy Weights vs Light Weights
    Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 11:00am

I've been thinking for a while and i think that it is better to be underweight in the majority of classes than it is to be overweight.  As far as i can tell lightweights are better in the light stuff and heavies in the heavy, however with the vast amount of controls available on most modern dinghies you are able to depower very effectively.  This surely means that lightweights will have a much greater advantage in the light and be competing on an even plain in anything but the heaviest of weathers.

This isn't a gripe about anything i'm just really interested in peoples thoughts, what are everyone elses experiences and are there any ways to power up a boat for the heavies in the light stuff?
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MRJP BUZZ 585 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1496 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MRJP BUZZ 585 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 11:16am
I definitely think you are right there as lightweights have big advantage in light stuff and in heavy winds in assymetric especially although they are disadvantaged upwind, downwind they can just go lower and faster, shame really as i am overweight for my class

edit - This definitely word is really getting to me (is that right now)


Edited by MRJP BUZZ 585
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HannahJ View Drop Down
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Posts: 861 		Post Options Post Options   Quote HannahJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 3:00pm
Maybe it depends on the boat: in Mirrors (yes, I know, not the sort of boat mentioned above) I've noticed recently that me and my crew (heavy) have no disadvantage against some very small light people even in lighter stuff, as we can roll tack better Also even with controls, I reckon nothing beats a bit of weight.
Also, don't different boats carry weight differently?
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m_liddell View Drop Down
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Posts: 583 		Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 3:34pm
In high performance dinghies weight seems to be much less of a factor than good boat handling skills when it gets windy. The main problem for lightweights is the increase in drag that comes with depowering the rig.
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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2339 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 5:08pm

well i cant help but think that i could do with more lard in the boat to keep the 600 down in the heavy stuff. but i suspect that has a lot to do with lazyness (its too much hassle dropping the mast to reef), and even more to do with lack of boat handling skills (just a matter of time). but in the light stuff i think there isn't much disadvantage as a heavier guy can get the bow further down and the transom further out without being very precariously balanced on the foredeck, and hence likely to capsize.

also with high performance boats the perception of heavy winds changes, in the laser i would happily have gone out in 20 knots, at 30 knots i'd still be out but with the 4.7 on. but with the 600, 20 knots is starting to seem silly and 30 knots is suicidal. so i think that a lightweight struggles more of the time in a high performance boat which doesnt have very much string (like the 600, with 3 bits of string, as opposed to say a 14 where you can tweak everything). however in a normal dinghy, an ent or a laser, you can get away with being light by hiking harder because they get to a certain level of sillyness then its just a matter of keeping the goddam thing flat. whereas ith a faster boat when it gets widnier things happen more quickly, sooner, if that makes sense.

im going to shut up now because i think im rambling.



Edited by mike ellis
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tmoore View Drop Down
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Posts: 880 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 5:47pm

i agree with m_liddell,

in the lighter stuff lightweights, generally do better HOWEVER, this is alos dependant on class as i know in my rs300 in light stuff i do not have enough weight to lift the transom out of the water properly.

in medium winds i think the lightweights rule again, we plane faster, are generally more agile (i mean on average, not aimed at anyone so no offense to heavy people who are also agile.).

BUT when we start depowering we lose out upwinds as where the heavies can hold the power, we have to lose it AND increase drag due. but downwind it makes very little difference.

When everyone is depowering it is down to pure skill, teamwork and good boat handling.

but it would be interesting to hear some of the heavier people views who think they are better off.
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MpHarris View Drop Down
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Posts: 141 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MpHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 6:58pm
well i'm on the heavier end of the spectrum and i seem to be slower in most of the light stuff.  It takes about a force 4 or more before we start to stand a chance in the rs400 with around 27 stone in it.  i know we are on a restricted piece of water but this can't simply be that.  Also i have many friends who are heavier and say that they struggle to keep up before it gets to a 4, the weight in the boat just means less planing (if the boat allows), more water being shoved out of the way (due to the increased displacement) and as a result a slower boat.
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timeintheboat View Drop Down
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Posts: 615 		Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 8:21pm
Boats with more flexible rigs (esp carbon but not exclusively) seem to allow the lightweights to be able to de-power and carry on as the wind picks up - not so apparent on boats with stiffer rigs.

In the ultra-light stuff I think there is less in it for reasons stated elsewhere - where it really becomes apparent is in the sub-planing conditions.

Of course best not confuse lightweights vs heavyweights with fit vs unfit - even with all that rig control if you are light you are going to have to hike like a hikey thing when it picks up - which often implies the fit bit.
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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Smight at BBSC View Drop Down
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Posts: 1129 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Smight at BBSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 8:34pm

Originally posted by MpHarris

well i'm on the heavier end of the spectrum and i seem to be slower in most of the light stuff.  It takes about a force 4 or more before we start to stand a chance in the rs400 with around 27 stone in it.  i know we are on a restricted piece of water but this can't simply be that.  Also i have many friends who are heavier and say that they struggle to keep up before it gets to a 4, the weight in the boat just means less planing (if the boat allows), more water being shoved out of the way (due to the increased displacement) and as a result a slower boat.

You have to remember that the 400 class is very competitive but also that if you sail inland your better off being lighter.
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Skiffybob View Drop Down
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Posts: 842 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffybob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 07 at 3:07pm

A big factor as to how much difference it makes of course, is to do with the weight of the boat itself, and the boats ability to carry your weight (i.e. its bouyancy).

In a short, light boat (like your Cherub), you'll find that 20Kg difference in crew wight makes a huge difference in the light stuff, whereas in something like a Laser 5000 it'll have much less effect a) because the boat is heavier to start with so the additional weight is a much smaller percentage of the overall sailing weight, and b) because it's long and can carry the extra weight easily without "bogging down".

This is why typically the shorter and lighter the boat, the greater the effect it has ,unless of course you're lucky enough to have the ability to simply throw a bigger rig on to compensate (but even then it's still a dis-advantage being heavier, but to a far lesser degree).
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