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505 foredeck in need of advice!

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riding shotgun View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote riding shotgun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 505 foredeck in need of advice!
    Posted: 15 Oct 05 at 9:05pm
hi everyone, PLEASE READ, ITS NOT AS LONG AS IT LOOKS
 tales of my old 505 are back and i am literally begging for advice this time,
my 505 has a wooden foredeck, the laminate is lifting just about everywhere, last year i tried sanding off the lifting plywood and using filler to briong the gaps back up to the level and then repaint...........worked for all of 5 minutes!!!
i now want to replace the whole of the foredeck i think!!?!

how should i do this, should i just lift the other one of and try to bend new plywood into shape, should i try taking it back down to a solid level of laminate and then put a bit of wood ontop of that?!should i take it bak and firbre glass it, filler the lot????
PLEASE help!! there must be some experts out there.......
i will put up some pictures for you to laugh at.....
just to add to the mix i have the loan of a local workshop, since i have no space being a student, for 1 week, so i need advice quick


thanks nick
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 05 at 9:52pm
Take the whole lot off and put new plywood on. Its not hugely difficult. You will need a staple gun. You use this to hold down the deck while the epoxy is going off.

Its easiest to plane the gunwhales down to level with the undersurface of the foredeck and put the fordeck right across the gunwhale. That does leave the ply end grain open though so you have to take care to keep it covered with varnish so water can't get in. The grade one job is to replace the gunwhales so that the end grain is covered, but you may find life is too short.

Again provided you are disciplined about varnish etc you can get away with exterior grade WBP ply for the foredeck: its about one fifth of the cost!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Johannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 05 at 9:54am
There are some repair/rebuild articles on www.int505.org. Myabe you could try to email them for advice.

Jan
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Post Options Post Options   Quote riding shotgun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 05 at 10:29am
ive been looking frantically through the 505 website and there is some bits and pieces of info there, but nothing very specific so have been finding it hard to find anything useful, thanks anyway.
i like the idea about losing the gunwhales, i was thinking how i would be able to get the shape exactly write.
will the staples go through the ply, its prob about 4 ply?
o and i no this sounds a stupid question but the internet is so vast i cant seem to find a specific supplier of wood which would suit, any advice??

thanks so much and any other advice will be greatly receieved

nick
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 05 at 10:50am
Originally posted by riding shotgun


i like the idea about losing the gunwhales, i was thinking how i would be able to get the shape exactly write.


You're correct, virtually impossible for those of us who aren't experienced wood workers to get the deck fitting down snugly inside existing gunwhales, so best not to try.

Originally posted by riding shotgun


will the staples go through the ply, its prob about 4 ply?


For sure. You need a reasonable staple gun and of course long staples: 10mm would be cool. Finnily enough it doesn't seem necesary to get really long stables down flush with the surface of the timber, they seem to grip enough. This is dead handy for getting them out again (which of course you must do).

Originally posted by riding shotgun


i cant seem to find a specific supplier of wood which would suit, any advice??


for proper Marine ply http://www.robbins.co.uk hold good stocks, deliver small quantities and so on. But delivery on small quantities gets on for doubling the cost which is pretty eye-watering for marine ply anyway! For acceptable exterior grade for a budget job then any decent timber merchant (as opposed to a DIY shop) will stock it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 05 at 10:51am

Water and Boil proof ply (WBP) is available at such well known boating outlets as Wickes and B&Q. If you want proper top quality ply (will look prettier and last longer, but good exterior plys are better now than boat building plys were 40 years ago) then Robbins timber in Bristol will deliver. I'd go for the WBP from Wickes, if you have one handy. I should think you will need 2 sheets for a 505 deck.

It might be possible to remove the gunwales back to behind where the foredeck reaches to, if the screws will undo, then plane back the edge of the new deck to that edge, and put the gunwale back. Your crew is less likely to get splinters going round the front, then! Or...cut the new decks to the shape of the old ones, and accept the fact that you will have to use epoxy filler between deck and gunwale where it doesn't quite fit.

My preferred way of fixing the deck is clamps, but you do need lots (screwfix is cheap) as you don't have to fill lots of little holes. You will need a pretty heavy duty staple gun to get through 4 mm ply, too. If you want a really quick job, screw it down, and leave the screws in...

Hope this helps, and good luck! The only difficult bit is making it pretty, so if you just want it to work, its pretty easy!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stingo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 05 at 10:54am
Plane off gunnels as described so the top is flush to the deck beams.  THEN plane off the outside parallel to the hull but not flush.  You want to get rid of any curved profile on the underside of the gunnel.
Epoxy the ply in place as described. Under each staple put a  patch of polythene sheet and a length of that plastic pallet or box strapping so you can remove the staples.  When its all set up, trim the ply back to where you trimmed the gunnel to and bend screw and glue a strip of hardwood to form a new gunnel.  Plug all the screw heads with matching plugs.  Plane top edge flush with deck, bottom flush with old gunnel remnant.  Shape top & bottom corners. Remove all staples, fill the staple holes. Prep for preferred finish.
Stingo Alb #1554
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 05 at 11:17am

You could try asking one of the Five-Oh lists, and especially the American lists - they tend to keep much older boats going over there. http://www.int505.org/moreinfo.htm

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Post Options Post Options   Quote riding shotgun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 05 at 11:40pm
guys this is amazing responce and i thank you so much, i now almost know what i am going to do, the plan is to buy 4 ply from wicks, WBP, plane or take the gunwhales off, apply glue...........NOW this is where i need help, which glue, specific and where to buy if pos since i am useless as am sure you've guessed............screw since i have an abundance of screwfix screws from work, plane ply and paint

now this is real idiot stuff so in your opinions what advice on paint, wanting black smooth finish hopefully, though may go for the wood option depending on time...

It might be possible to remove the gunwales back to behind where the foredeck reaches to.................this comment, would it be easy to put gunwhales back??

once again thank you

nick

p.s. 3 days untill start and i will post result and pics
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 05 at 9:31am

Only do the gunwales if it looks like they will come off and go back on easily! That would involve the screws undoing easily, so you will soon know if the idea is viable! If it does come off, then glue and screws will fix it down again.

As for glue, either Balcotan (Robbins will post it) which is easy coz you just squeeze it from a tube, but needs a fair amount of pressure to stop the foaming pushing the joint apart, or Epoxy (SP or WEST) with filler (the place you buy the epoxy from will be able go guide you on which one you need) which needs mixing in fairly accurate amounts, but can be used for filling the gaps, too. I've used both, and neither have fallen apart, but as you will need epoxy anyway for filling (and possibly coating the deck) that is probebly the one to go for.

Don't forget to waterproof the UNDERSIDE of the deck! Either with epoxy, clear primer (UCP or woodseal) or clear pond seal (G4 or V4) available from garden centres! You can do the top of the deck with it, too.

Wood option takes less time than paint, really, especially if you go the pond seal route, as you can get 3 coats on in about 4 hours. Then you will need another coat of varnish (take your choice between DIY shop (blackfriars yacht varnish is good) or single pack polyurathane from a chandlers. If coating with epoxy, then something like ultravar 2000 2 pack varnish gives excellent UV protection, as epoxy degrades in sunlight. Wet sand back with 400 grit wet & dry between primer and top coats, and between top coats.

Try Northampton sailboats website (sailboats .co.uk?) for all the bits, they are pretty efficient, but most on line chandlers will have what you need.

 

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