What would you choose?

   So, I've sold the Blaze and i'm struggling to choose a replacement. The Blaze was a great boat, but overall not quite right for my club's water.
The only single-handed fleet we have is the Laser and I'm too fat for that.  The obvious choice is a Phantom, we have three at the club and one is coming up for sale as the owner wants a newer one.

The problem as I see it is that it is a late grp boat, the other three Phantoms will be epoxy.  What would be the point of spending money on a boat that won't compete with the rest of the fleet? I could perhaps argue for the application of the slower handicap but if they agreed I'd then lose the fleet aspect. the other big problem is that although I could afford the boat, sails for Phantoms are massively expensive and I'd struggle to afford a replacement when the time comes.

Option 2 is a Vareo, sure they get a bit of a hard time but they're good fun and reasonably affordable to run.  Although the two sails are more expensive than one Phantom sale at least the running costs would be staggered and individually the prices are going to be more within my reach.  We do RTC not W/L but the courses tend to have more of a beat/run bias than reaches because that's what suits the Flying Fifteens so maybe it won't hurt the Vareo too much.  There's no fleet racing at all though; there are two other Vareos but they don't sail much.

Option 3 is a Supernova. Again there's no fleet, just one other, but they're affordable both in terms of purchasing and in running costs, better for my weight than a Laser (but still not ideal). The downside is the class seems a bit in disarray from what I've read on the CA website with the introduction of the new hull shape and then the new epoxy boat in what is supposed to be a one design class. I'm not bothered in terms of opens and things like that but what might happen to residuals of older boats if the class implodes.

And here's the thing that presides over any boat choice, we've just had a baby so sailing this year might be limited. There's an argument that there's no point having money tied up in a boat but if I don't buy one it'll be like the time I sold my motorbike, the money slowly got absorbed by other stuff and I never had one again.

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Kev M Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 05 Dec 11 Location: Landlocked Online Status: Offline Posts: 346	Post Options Post Reply Quote Kev M Report Post Quote Reply Topic: What would you choose? Posted: 27 Dec 12 at 8:44pm
	So, I've sold the Blaze and i'm struggling to choose a replacement. The Blaze was a great boat, but overall not quite right for my club's water. The only single-handed fleet we have is the Laser and I'm too fat for that. The obvious choice is a Phantom, we have three at the club and one is coming up for sale as the owner wants a newer one. The problem as I see it is that it is a late grp boat, the other three Phantoms will be epoxy. What would be the point of spending money on a boat that won't compete with the rest of the fleet? I could perhaps argue for the application of the slower handicap but if they agreed I'd then lose the fleet aspect. the other big problem is that although I could afford the boat, sails for Phantoms are massively expensive and I'd struggle to afford a replacement when the time comes. Option 2 is a Vareo, sure they get a bit of a hard time but they're good fun and reasonably affordable to run. Although the two sails are more expensive than one Phantom sale at least the running costs would be staggered and individually the prices are going to be more within my reach. We do RTC not W/L but the courses tend to have more of a beat/run bias than reaches because that's what suits the Flying Fifteens so maybe it won't hurt the Vareo too much. There's no fleet racing at all though; there are two other Vareos but they don't sail much. Option 3 is a Supernova. Again there's no fleet, just one other, but they're affordable both in terms of purchasing and in running costs, better for my weight than a Laser (but still not ideal). The downside is the class seems a bit in disarray from what I've read on the CA website with the introduction of the new hull shape and then the new epoxy boat in what is supposed to be a one design class. I'm not bothered in terms of opens and things like that but what might happen to residuals of older boats if the class implodes. And here's the thing that presides over any boat choice, we've just had a baby so sailing this year might be limited. There's an argument that there's no point having money tied up in a boat but if I don't buy one it'll be like the time I sold my motorbike, the money slowly got absorbed by other stuff and I never had one again.
	Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980.

iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Dec 12 at 10:06pm
	Get the Phantom, argue the point for the older handicap then go beat the epoxy ones on occasion anyway, using better tactics. My chum sold his Old GRP boat to one of our clubs proper dinghy sailors who of course beats him with it all the time. It very rarely is the boat that makes the difference.

pondmonkey Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2202	Post Options Post Reply Quote pondmonkey Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 28 Dec 12 at 9:50am
	Forget the handicap issue- buy the Phant, it's not going to be that much slower than a new epoxy... How many bad tacks or wrong calls would be worse? I'd rather race a slightly less competitive than brand new boat and get some proper fleet racing, than something shiny to sail around on my tod.

Neptune Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jun 09 Location: Berkshire United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1314	Post Options Post Reply Quote Neptune Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 28 Dec 12 at 10:18am
	Ignore sail costs, they are all going to he similar.
	Musto Skiff and Solo sailor

Ruscoe Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ruscoe Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 28 Dec 12 at 12:26pm
	i Beg to differ there is a MASSIVE difference in boat speeds between Epoxy and GRP Phantoms so much so that in my opinion they are two different boats. The phantom sounds like its the perfect boat for your water type and its a great class, but please if you only listen to one piece of advice from me, save some more money and buy an early epoxy boat forget the GRP.


Roger Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 04 Location: Somerset Online Status: Offline Posts: 524	Post Options Post Reply Quote Roger Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 28 Dec 12 at 8:23pm
	What is the sail number of the "late GRP" boat that's available? Assuming we are talking Burton SC here, all the ones in the club results are epoxy.

Kev M Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 05 Dec 11 Location: Landlocked Online Status: Offline Posts: 346	Post Options Post Reply Quote Kev M Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 28 Dec 12 at 9:25pm
	1098, The guy who owns it doesn't know if it's grp or epoxy but the Phantom site says epoxy boat are >1100. I emailed Vandercraft for confirmation but haven't had a response yet. If it definitely is epoxy it removes one variable from the equation.
	Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980.

Roger Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 04 Location: Somerset Online Status: Offline Posts: 524	Post Options Post Reply Quote Roger Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 28 Dec 12 at 9:38pm
	I'm pretty sure that was the first epoxy boat, built for Dave G at Lyme, he sailed it for a few years before getting another. 1100 was possibly the first "production" epoxy boat and went to P&B. I'd phone Jeff at Vandercraft rather than email, he is very helpful but is more likely to pick up the phone than answer an email.

Ruscoe Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ruscoe Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Dec 12 at 12:23am
	I would agree with roger in 1100 being the first production epoxy hull. But I would of thought that 1098 was grp. I recognise that sail number as well for some reason...


Kev M Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 05 Dec 11 Location: Landlocked Online Status: Offline Posts: 346	Post Options Post Reply Quote Kev M Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Dec 12 at 6:46pm
	I'll give them a call next week then unless there is some external clues I could look for on the boat that would easily show if it was grp or epoxy. Interestingly there's a much older Phantom for sale on apolloduck being advertised as an epoxy boat.
	Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980.