Choosing a boat: What would you choose?

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What would you choose?

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10324
Printed Date: 05 Aug 25 at 6:27am
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Topic: What would you choose?

Posted By: Kev M
Subject: What would you choose?
Date Posted: 27 Dec 12 at 8:44pm

So, I've sold the Blaze and i'm struggling to choose a replacement. The Blaze was a great boat, but overall not quite right for my club's water.

The only single-handed fleet we have is the Laser and I'm too fat for that. The obvious choice is a Phantom, we have three at the club and one is coming up for sale as the owner wants a newer one.

The problem as I see it is that it is a late grp boat, the other three Phantoms will be epoxy. What would be the point of spending money on a boat that won't compete with the rest of the fleet? I could perhaps argue for the application of the slower handicap but if they agreed I'd then lose the fleet aspect. the other big problem is that although I could afford the boat, sails for Phantoms are massively expensive and I'd struggle to afford a replacement when the time comes.

Option 2 is a Vareo, sure they get a bit of a hard time but they're good fun and reasonably affordable to run. Although the two sails are more expensive than one Phantom sale at least the running costs would be staggered and individually the prices are going to be more within my reach. We do RTC not W/L but the courses tend to have more of a beat/run bias than reaches because that's what suits the Flying Fifteens so maybe it won't hurt the Vareo too much. There's no fleet racing at all though; there are two other Vareos but they don't sail much.

Option 3 is a Supernova. Again there's no fleet, just one other, but they're affordable both in terms of purchasing and in running costs, better for my weight than a Laser (but still not ideal). The downside is the class seems a bit in disarray from what I've read on the CA website with the introduction of the new hull shape and then the new epoxy boat in what is supposed to be a one design class. I'm not bothered in terms of opens and things like that but what might happen to residuals of older boats if the class implodes.

And here's the thing that presides over any boat choice, we've just had a baby so sailing this year might be limited. There's an argument that there's no point having money tied up in a boat but if I don't buy one it'll be like the time I sold my motorbike, the money slowly got absorbed by other stuff and I never had one again.

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Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980.

Replies:

Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 27 Dec 12 at 10:06pm

Get the Phantom, argue the point for the older handicap then go beat the epoxy ones on occasion anyway, using better tactics.
My chum sold his Old GRP boat to one of our clubs proper dinghy sailors who of course beats him with it all the time. It very rarely is the boat that makes the difference.

Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 28 Dec 12 at 9:50am

Forget the handicap issue- buy the Phant, it's not going to be that much slower than a new epoxy... How many bad tacks or wrong calls would be worse? I'd rather race a slightly less competitive than brand new boat and get some proper fleet racing, than something shiny to sail around on my tod.

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Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 28 Dec 12 at 10:18am

Ignore sail costs, they are all going to he similar.

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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor

Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 28 Dec 12 at 12:26pm

i Beg to differ there is a MASSIVE difference in boat speeds between Epoxy and GRP Phantoms so much so that in my opinion they are two different boats. The phantom sounds like its the perfect boat for your water type and its a great class, but please if you only listen to one piece of advice from me, save some more money and buy an early epoxy boat forget the GRP.

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Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 28 Dec 12 at 8:23pm

What is the sail number of the "late GRP" boat that's available?

Assuming we are talking Burton SC here, all the ones in the club results are epoxy.

Posted By: Kev M
Date Posted: 28 Dec 12 at 9:25pm

1098, The guy who owns it doesn't know if it's grp or epoxy but the Phantom site says epoxy boat are >1100. I emailed Vandercraft for confirmation but haven't had a response yet. If it definitely is epoxy it removes one variable from the equation.

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Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980.

Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 28 Dec 12 at 9:38pm

I'm pretty sure that was the first epoxy boat, built for Dave G at Lyme, he sailed it for a few years before getting another. 1100 was possibly the first "production" epoxy boat and went to P&B.

I'd phone Jeff at Vandercraft rather than email, he is very helpful but is more likely to pick up the phone than answer an email.

Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 29 Dec 12 at 12:23am

I would agree with roger in 1100 being the first production epoxy hull. But I would of thought that 1098 was grp. I recognise that sail number as well for some reason...

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Posted By: Kev M
Date Posted: 29 Dec 12 at 6:46pm

I'll give them a call next week then unless there is some external clues I could look for on the boat that would easily show if it was grp or epoxy.

Interestingly there's a much older Phantom for sale on apolloduck being advertised as an epoxy boat.

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Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980.

Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 29 Dec 12 at 7:01pm

The one on Apollo Duck is definitely not epoxy (assuming your referring to 1051). Somebody is either trying to pull a fast one there or is unaware of the construction.
Speak to Jeff at Vandercraft, I'm still pretty sure 1098 is epoxy, I sailed against it many times when it was newish.

Posted By: Kev M
Date Posted: 03 Jan 13 at 4:25pm

You boys certainly know your stuff. I spoke to Jeff at lunchtime and it is one of the last epoxy Phantoms he made before someone else started building them for him. He reckons it's probably 5kg heavier than the 1100+ boats but there's a bigger weight difference than that between the Phantom helms at the club so it's not big deal as far as I'm concerned.

Now I just need the owner to find himself a new boat so that we can talk money on his.

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Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980.

Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 03 Jan 13 at 4:33pm

Do you mean one of the last Polyester boats? Be carful because if Jeff has misunderstood the number (not saying he would at all) then he could be thinking about boats around 1298 which would be near when ovington took over production.

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Posted By: Kev M
Date Posted: 03 Jan 13 at 5:03pm

He said that 1098 was an epoxy boat made for his friend Dave G. He said it was the last of those boats he made and then someone else made a run of boats from 1100 onwards.

I got the impression that after the pre-production boats someone else made a run for him, then he made a run and then I guess Ovington took over.

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Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980.

Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 03 Jan 13 at 7:28pm

Glad you got an answer from Jeff, it does bear out what I thought, Jeff and Dave are both members at Lyme.

Production went to a company in Bristol if I remember right for the 1100 plus epoxy boats, I remember chatting to Jeff about it at that time, most of his day to day business of course is trailers/trollies.

Posted By: rb_stretch
Date Posted: 04 Jan 13 at 7:54am

Originally posted by Ruscoe

Do you mean one of the last Polyester boats? Be carful because if Jeff has misunderstood the number (not saying he would at all) then he could be thinking about boats around 1298 which would be near when ovington took over production.

I think it was something like 1275-1278 that the build went to Ovington. Mine is 1289 and definitely an Ovington.

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