Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 16 Jun 12 at 8:29am |
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At the risk of repeating myself "comfortable satisfaction" is the standard set by the Court of Arbitration in Sport - which is the court of ultimate appeal for our sport.
IMHO the change in terminology changes nothing - merely that we can now refer to an internationally accepted standard that applies (or will apply) to all sports. |
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Gordon
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Agreed, and there'sa large element of catch 22. If you have few protests, because most disagreements are sorted out on the water, then those you have are likely to involve strong feelings, and most likely be complicated. Then your potential arbitrators get little experience, and are more likley to go astray than someone who conducts these things regularly. I for one wouldn't be confident to run things on my own without a couple of others to assist if some kind of faulty logic sends me down the wrong path. |
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Presuming Ed ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
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Try an email/call to your regional rules advisor. There's a goodly amount of experience there to call on - e.g., Chris Simon, the Thames Valley advisor, is an AC umpire and current VOR umpire/judge. Peter Johnson in the north is chief umpire at the Wilson Trophy. Etc. |
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Looks like generally very good advice.
But I think what Jim is saying is that he's quite happy deciding protests on a committee with a couple of other experienced sailors at the club, but he would not be comfortable going solo as an arbitrator.
People like Jim, who have a wholesome nervousness about exceeding their capabilities are not a problem for arbitration: an arbitrator can and should call off the arbitration and send the protest to the protest committee the instant he or she thinks the evidence or the rules application are too difficult. The people I worry about are those who want to be an Arbitrator and are convinced that they could not possibly be wrong ever.
I'm not sure where a RYA Advisory Hearing goes if the Rules Advisor gets cold feet: it think it just dissolves with nothing decided. Edited by Brass - 18 Jun 12 at 12:14pm |
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sargesail ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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And my whole experience of arbitrators (2 from 2 actual) and 2 more that I've discussed rules with, has been that they were the type who couldn't possibly be wrong ever! Bit like me
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Presuming Ed ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
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He bails out and moves to a full protest hearing. Full details of the advisory hearing/arbitration/protest structure are here: Advisory Hearing Use this if you just want to learn whether you were in the right or wrong. Arbitration Use this if you want the dispute resolved quickly and simply. This is not as formal as a Protest Hearing and the potential penalty is not as damaging to a boat's score. Full protest: Use this if the dispute is complex, or if there has been injury or serious damage, or if you feel an exoneration penalty would be inappropriate.
Edited by Presuming Ed - 18 Jun 12 at 2:51pm |
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Fine, but see the table: you can get to an Advisory Hearing without there being a valid protest.
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Presuming Ed ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
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doh. RTQ. Advisory =/ arbitration.
Advisory hearing is just the RYA formalising a chat in the pub. "No, you shouldn't have done that. Had you been protested, you probably would have lost the protest".
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