taking a windward mark too wide

both · Originally posted by laser193713

Originally posted by laser193713

Interesting break down there, I agree with a lot of what is said here, but interpret the rules slightly differently perhaps.  I would not say that having passed the mark and gybing back towards it that A is sailing to the mark, in fact A is sailing to the next mark of the course, yes she is sailing towards the windward mark again but is NOT sailing to it. Remember that B is not expected to anticipate the sudden gybe of A, the diagram shows A sailing a reasonable distance before making this gybe and in many classes of dinghy and yacht this could be a plenty large enough gap to take. 

Correct me if I am wrong, my rules knowledge is fairly strong but without a rulebook in front of me quoting rules word for word or by number is beyond my memory   

You say ‘as I remember ...'.  It seems to me that your remembrance might be based on the 2005-2008 rules.

Under those old rules, rule 18 applied from when boats were ‘about to round or pass a mark’ until ‘they have passed it’.

The zone did not affect whether rule 18 applied or not.  The zone only affected whether a boat clear ahead or an inside overlapped boat gained right of way, overriding the ordinary right of way rules or had a continuing right to room.  These entitlements switched off when the rule as a whole switched off.

There were cases which made it clear that a boat had ‘passed’ the mark when it had left the mark clear astern, thus there could be a time when boats were still in the zone, but rule 18 had ceased to apply.  Contrary to your recollection, the rule did not switch off until both boats had passed the mark.

I think your recollection of the old rules, and your mis-recollection about rule 18 switching off when only one of the boats had passed the mark may have influenced your ideas about the way new rule 18 works.

The new 2009 rules take a different approach.  Rule 18 now applies between boats whenever at least one of them is in the zone.

This paper about the 2009 rules was prepared by one of the drafters

http://yachting.org.au/site/yachting/ayf/downloads/Technical/RaceManagement/Comparison%20of%20Old%20and%20New%20Section%20C%20Rules.pdf

It tells us that there was no ‘game change’ intended for rule 18.

Note that, applying the 2008 rules to the situation in the diagram in this thread, Boat A, having reached the zone clear ahead, had right of way over Boat B, until both boats had passed the mark.

There are some other references about ‘to the mark’.

MR Call Ump 43 

http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/MRCallBooksupplementfor2011booklet-[9673].pdf

says that a boat is sailing _to_ the mark when[ever] she is sailing a course towards the mark that will leave the mark on the required side, until she is _at_ the mark.

US Sailing Appeal 105

http://raceadmin.ussailing.org/Assets/Race+Admin/Appeals/Appeal+105+%2810-03%29.pdf

 says “The phrase “room to sail to the mark” in the definition Mark-Room means space to sail in a seamanlike way to a position close to, and on the required side of, the mark”

Q&A 2009-022

http://www.sailing.org/27411.php

Answer 1 If the boat entitled to mark-room has right of way, she is free to sail any course [to the mark] within the limitations of the rules of Part 2, Section B, and, if it applies, rule 18.4.

Edited by Brass - 25 Jul 11 at 1:03am