Oppostie Gybes, leeward Mark

Originally posted by Peaky I have huge difficulty picturing the scenarios you are discussing, so can't contribute on the 'legal' front, but Damp Freddie's argument seems to be based upon boats like the 400 sailing hot angles for their proper course.  This seems fraught with danger becasue who determines what 'hot angle' is proper and quickest?   It seems simpler to me to say that if a boat is entitled to room (but is not ROW boat) they must sail directly towards the mark irrespective of whether that is the fastest mode of sailing.

No it is based upon coming in as a sole starboard boat to an LM, while all other boats affected are on port. Case 25 illustrates it well, while the angles of brasses lone boat are more exact to my meaning on the stb boat.

It is an interplay between rules 10,11,12 the principle rules, and 18 and that is what I was interested in stimulating debate which has been interesting.

While you are right of way boat you can expect that Port boats avoid you by going wider and they must allow you to gybe before you round (or at rounding)

My final summary of this rant is

1) as long as you stay in the three boat zone, upwind of the LM, on STB you can push port boats wide who you are inside overlapped to or clear ahead of.

2) after you gybe you must, as gordon repeats and the rules state, sail to the mark, and not sail farther than needed ie downwind of an LM in brass's diag.

3) you have to obey rule 16.1 in hearding port boats wide and in gybing: remember your stern will swing, you have to give them room to keep clear

4) if as JimC points out, you leave a big door for port boats behind the one(s) you were hearding out the way, then expect rule 14 to apply. If they take the space while you are wide then if they can get away with it so be it. Done it a couple of times under older rules, but more often sailed round "car parks" wide.


Next...bring back "mast a-beam" anyone?

WOOF!

damp freddie said: as long as you stay in the three boat zone, upwind of the LM, on STB you can push port boats wide who you are inside overlapped to or clear ahead of.

No - 18.4 clearly states that an inside overlapped ROW boat shall sail no further than her proper course lgybing. Nothing abou staying in the zone... If STB boat leaves the zone she is no longer entitled to mark room (but may still be ROW). NB 18.4 does not apply to a boat that is clear ahead - if you go wide clear astern boat will probably gybe inside you, and ( if you are still ROW, you won't be able to close the door without breaking rule 16.

The important thing to realise is that 18.2b only gives a limited entitlement, and ROW can be lost during the mark rounding.

Gordon
PS The moment when a boat is passed the mark is nnot defined in the rules because it depends entirely on the conditions. A boat is past the mark when the course she is steering is no longer influenced by the need to pass the mark. In many cases this is when the mark is behind a line abeam from the aftermost point of the boat. However, in certain conditions of tide and wind this may be a long way after this point.

Originally posted by gordon 3 A late port tack boat will often find room available, any boat entitled to mark room may try to close the door at the mark (subject to rule 14), but is often unable to do so. 4 A boat may still have an entitlement to mark room when she has passed the mark, however this entitlement has little practical value as mark room by definition does not have any existence once a boat ceases to be "at the mark". Gordon

3.  Still early morning there I see:  ITYM rule 16?

4.  Thanks, that's the way I see it too, but, of course, once the boat begins to sail _to_ the mark, or arrives _at_ the mark again, then her mark-room once again becomes meaningful.