Rule 18 for assymetrics gybing

Originally posted by gordon You cannot "gybe and be dammed". As ROW boat first cat must give second cat room to keep clear when she changes course (rule 16.1).

yes agreed, You cannot "gybe and be dammed".

Originally posted by gordon However as first cat goes from right of way clear satern to ROW starboard rule 15 "acquiring right of way" does not apply. Gordon

I think you mean right of way clear ahead not clear "satern"?  But your point about R15 is very helpful, thanks

Originally posted by Ian29937 I'm getting royally confused - in Guests second post there is no mention of lasers. Were there any involved or not?

I thought Guests first post was about a real situation with lasers in it, but later on we all moved to discussing a hypothetical case with a shoreline in it  (which was a continuing obstruction) instead of the lasers 

Edited by asterix

Originally posted by asterix Originally posted by gordon You cannot "gybe and be dammed". As ROW boat first cat must give second cat room to keep clear when she changes course (rule 16.1). yes agreed, You cannot "gybe and be dammed". Originally posted by gordon However as first cat goes from right of way clear satern to ROW starboard rule 15 "acquiring right of way" does not apply. Gordon I think you mean right of way clear ahead not clear "satern"?  But your point about R15 is very helpful, thanks

If the boat ahead (A) was originally sailing a little upwind of the track of the boat behind (B), then it is possible that, as A bears away to gybe, she will become overlapped to windward of B, thus momentarily becoming the give way boat, until she has gybed.  In this case, when A has gybed onto starboard she transitions from keep clear (windward) to right of way (starboard), in which case rule 15 will apply and A must initially give B room to keep clear, but as A and B are now on opposite gybes, with no constraints on B sailing higher to the wind to keep clear this should not be a problem.

You guys would really find life much easier if you stopped all this shouting and stuff.  There are only two hails:  'Protest' and 'room to tack'.  Conversations elsewhere are a mighty cause of confusion.

Edited by Brass

Yes it does, but not as much as some people believe. Hailing for mark room does not create an entitlement that has to be challenged in the protest room.

The key rule in any rule 18 protest is often 18.2d "If there is a reasonable doubt that a boat obtained or broke an overlap in time, it shall be presumed that she did not."

When there is doubt the best way out for the protest committee is to work back to the last point of certainty - the last point at which it can be established as a fact that there was, or was not, an overlap. The rule then obliges the PC to presume that this situation did not change unless the change can be established as a fact. A fact is an act or condition that a protest committee finds occured or existed (see ISAF CASE 104).

Without 18.2d many protest would be impossible resolve. This rule does also mean that if you establish or break an overlap at the last minute it has to be clearly established or broken. If in doubt don't go there!


Gordon

Just been reading through this...

It makes sense that the boat behind has to provide room for the first boat to avoid the obstruction/lasers.

But, does he have to let the first cat gybe on to a 'racing course/angle' or can he just make her run low, assuming it's sufficient to avoid the obstacle, potentially slowing her and gaining a tactical advantage??

It nearly came to blows (but thankfully the pub table was too wide) when a senior instructor told us we couldn't have room because we hadn't shouted for it when he as windward boat from clear astern had to keep clear of us pointing higher on same starboard tack!

 My response now is that "sailing is an equal opportunities sport so what happens if you are a mute?"

As to the original problem surely first cat could have planned ahead better to not get into that situation? The lasers could be anticipated, they aren't that fast!