Masts |
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Sam.Spoons ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 19 Dec 18 at 4:34pm |
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I'd have guessed more expensive as the loads are concentrated in one area and the cantilever effect multiplies the loads at deck and keel level compared to up at the CoE of the rig.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Well as part of my needing to practise wiring I fitted trap wires to the jolly old EPS of joy, it has a two part mast, although I seem to remember fitting the wires below the joint, it has so far done the job, not that I've dealt with any serious wind using it, that's what the Farr works best in.
This reminds me of my quest for cheaper carbon masts, given the average cost of 6 mtrs of raw carbon tube can be had for as little as £130.00 I've always felt two grand is just a little excessive in what we're expected to pay for masts and I've yet to come across anything particularly sophisticated, nor its bend curve actually matched to the luff curve of any given sail, that may be the case in some other classes, naturally I've never studied the Finn which is rumoured to have quite 'trick' masts, but I bet they don't even try for a designed luff curve mismatch. It's such a pity classes don't come together to discuss their mutual needs, take the Streaker for example it needs a carbon mast, they're all lightweights, arguably there's a case for the Solution going down the carbon mast route and don't even mention the Solo.. If there were a consortium of classes, then the boot could be on our foot instead of the other way round and we get a grip of these stupid prices y'all get conned into. |
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Sam.Spoons ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400 |
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Finn and OK masts are pretty sophisticated these days and we've been matching the bend and luff curve since they were made of wood. With a wooden stick you could easily alter the stiffness/curve by the simple expedient of gluing on timber battens or planing them off again. With ally masts the stiffness curve was fixed and the sail had to be cut for a specific mast. I suppose Carbon would allow the mast to be adjusted again but suspect none are.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6660 |
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I've never ordered a mainsail for any mast, tin or plastic, without doing the measurements of spar bend. Its routine in the development classes.
And yes, its by no means unknown to customise a carbon spar to change the bend. I've done it. Of course you need a new or possibly altered sail to match the altered spar. Edited by JimC - 19 Dec 18 at 6:36pm |
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getafix ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Mar 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2143 |
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I wonder about this. No doubt you are right about the load concentration being different. Keel is always a reinforced area anyhow. I doubt the hull cost being higher if you use a higher collar/deck gate, as with OK, Aero, D-Zero. Reinforcement at the mast step/mast gate level is surely preferable to bow or typical areas where the shrouds would be located? Could it be that un-stayed masts enable cheaper hull construction and less weight at the bow/max-beam areas?
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6660 |
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By and large with dinghies my experience, FWIW, is that by the time you have a hull shell that has adequate panel stiffness and dent resistance there isn't an awful lot more needs to be done to the skin. Given the extreme rigging loads used these days you do need to control compression loads, but an awful lot of that can be done by good design at deck level. I've never really thought about what loads might be like on an unstayed rig, it seems so inferior from POV of rig weight, mast size, bend control etc that I've never really considered it.
Now I think of it I tend to use mast posts/stumps, and that possibly has some of the same structural challenges as an unstayed rig. The concern with the post is handling very large kicking strap loads. The post on my Cherub was in fact the bottom of a Finn mast reinforced, but above the post the real spar was way lighter and thinner than any unstayed mast. |
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E.J. ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 19 Feb 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 184 |
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I vaguely remember a trapeze boat introduced called the Delta 14. We had a demo at our club an I recall it was unstayed with a mega thick ally bottom section and laser style hole in the deck to step it. I wasn’t very nice to sail and diapered quickly. So it can be done, but don’t.
I may have dreamt all of that, it was in the mid nineties and was usually sailing with a stinking hangover and hallucinating. |
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Sam.Spoons ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400 |
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I guess it was a bit cr@p? |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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The delta as at the dinghy show. Huge mast.
I like the simplicity of an unstayed rig, even if less efficient. And I like letting the boom go forwards without hitting the shroud. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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