rohan veal's foiling A-cat

   I can't remember if it was last year or two years ago that after perfecting the 'Foiling up' of the 'international moth' the grape vine had it that Rohan Veal bought an A class cat and started playing with foils, very shortly after this rumour the development class then became a quasi development class by banning lifting foils. I am interested to know what happened with regards Rohan's attempts was it much faster?, did it fly downwind? did it break? And if the answers to these questions are positives how much would a set of foils cost or could they be adapted from something else. Not about to step out and buy some but i would like to know how good this could be. The Hobie tri-foiler worked a treat(look it up on you-tube) don't know what it cost or why it didn't make it over here but just shows you what's possible.
who wants to go flying.......... 

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redhotchilicat Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 27 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 76	Post Options Post Reply Quote redhotchilicat Report Post Quote Reply Topic: rohan veal's foiling A-cat Posted: 02 Apr 08 at 12:16pm
	I can't remember if it was last year or two years ago that after perfecting the 'Foiling up' of the 'international moth' the grape vine had it that Rohan Veal bought an A class cat and started playing with foils, very shortly after this rumour the development class then became a quasi development class by banning lifting foils. I am interested to know what happened with regards Rohan's attempts was it much faster?, did it fly downwind? did it break? And if the answers to these questions are positives how much would a set of foils cost or could they be adapted from something else. Not about to step out and buy some but i would like to know how good this could be. The Hobie tri-foiler worked a treat(look it up on you-tube) don't know what it cost or why it didn't make it over here but just shows you what's possible. who wants to go flying..........
	go on you know it makes sense

Tornado_ALIVE Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Nov 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 611	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tornado_ALIVE Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Apr 08 at 12:47pm
	Don't think it even happened. I know he played a bit as a standard A Class thought.
	www.formula18alive.com

alstorer Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899	Post Options Post Reply Quote alstorer Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Apr 08 at 12:57pm
	There was a C-Class that took part in last year's Little America's Cup fitted with four t-foils, but they didn't win and reckon it was partly due to the excessive drag the foils caused- C-Class boats being already very highly engineered for speed. I know he was involved in some of the test sailing of that. Edited by alstorer

craiggo Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810	Post Options Post Reply Quote craiggo Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Apr 08 at 1:12pm
	As far as I'm aware Rohan never got to playing foiling on an A-class, as the launch of the Bladerider ate into his time, indeed as a result of Bladerider work he is not competing in the Moth this year. He did however have a go on 'Off yer rocker' the second C-class built by the Canadian team. Looking at the polars the foiling C, showed good speed and depth downwind but suffered upwind. The reason the moths go so well to windward is the Veal Heal, using the horizontal lifting foil to lift you to windward, but on such a wide catamaran its difficult to get enough windward heel on, as a result when it does lift onto the foils it falls off to leeward, and any speed gain is negated by the loss in height (pointing). Whether the narrow beam of the A-class (relative to length) would ease this problem I dont know, but Im not convinced a foiling setup as currently used is quick around a typical course on a cat.

redhotchilicat Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 27 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 76	Post Options Post Reply Quote redhotchilicat Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Apr 08 at 2:18pm
	Interesting stuff, a shame the foiling A didn't get off the water then. I've see 'off yer rocker' well pictures of, and it looks impressive in flight, but I don't know how speed verus VMG works out. All the bigger craft though I think seem too big and ungainly and something smaller would seem to be sensible. also the weight issue evrything i've seen up close that's meant to foil off 2 hulls has been heavy and over engineered. the simplest thing still seems to be the Hobie tri foiler but again I don't know how high or low it points and if it would be much faster than a conventional beach multi around a course. That's the real issue would a foiler be quicker than a conventional A class with it's current modern platforms?
	go on you know it makes sense

alstorer Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899	Post Options Post Reply Quote alstorer Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Apr 08 at 3:38pm
	Another thought- presumably with highly developed cats such as the A and C the rig design takes into account the fact it will be heeling (on one hull) most of the time? it would stike me that a different rig design would therefore be needed to harness the same speed and power but keep the boat flat or heeled to windward? Or am I barking?

redhotchilicat Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 27 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 76	Post Options Post Reply Quote redhotchilicat Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Apr 08 at 3:54pm
	The boats are indeed designed to be sailed only on one hull thus reducing wetted area drag by 14% however excessive heeling will spill power as with any boat, when sailed properly however the apparent wind generated is coming from far enough forward that very little (comparatively) flow will be up the vertical plain of the mast. thus preserving proper flow over the main. This is the same effect which makes 'going wild' work downwind although sailing at a well heeled over angle looks as if it is spilling power up the mast most of the flow is from well forward due to apparent. The current rigs on the A class have such a small draft and therefore drag I don't see this as a problem (but then I'm barking as well!) seriously though the current rigs are excellent extremely high aspect virtually no draft or drag and an absolute bugger to generate flow over again if you stall in the light stuff!
	go on you know it makes sense

farc anal Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Groupie Joined: 11 Oct 07 Location: one stop short of Tooting Online Status: Offline Posts: 54	Post Options Post Reply Quote farc anal Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 4:14pm
	what you need is twist inducers for when the sail stalls in the light stuff , I made some out of old tights (soaked ovenight in marmite ) stretched over scrumpy barrells one leg at a time until a c note can be heard when twanging the gussset , this makes them thin and less wind resistant , tie sufficient sets o tights together to just not reach end of boom from mast head , when boom parrallel to tramp . tie to mast head and boom end using the skin from a turkeys neck stretched over cotton reels to desired thickness (cheap and organic ) this should see yur boom raised at the outer end and twistin the sail off , sheet in tight (pun intended) once your flows attached, tights will stretch even thinner and off you go , if you need more boom lift , double up on the tights . Tights can be sourced in the organic state from oxfam etc , but best to wash out before use , alternate colours can be used to pleasing effect , or black ones to emulate carbon . other colours for kevlar, pbo the possibilities are endless . I've a plan for foiling my shearwater that involves ladders an ole pool table and a fishing rod , will pass on how I do when tis done ps why not cant the t foils to get de same effect as Veals Heal and you could be sailing with a couple of cants ! happy flying Edited by farc anal