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Water a the mark protest

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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Water a the mark protest
    Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 4:06pm

no, i think that only applies at leeward mark. port and starboard apply at windward mark but not windward leeward.

i think, i hope, please correct me if im wrong.



Edited by mike ellis
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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 4:57pm

2 boat lengths applies  -  Ergo don't tack inside it.

W/L boat also applies

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 11:38pm
Assuming the mark is soft I feel the inside boat should have hit the mark rather than hit the boat outside.  Certainly damage should not be caused when boats are parallel.  You only need your bouancy aid or tiller extension to touch the outside boat to make a point and this is what boat 2 should have done to boat 3.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 07 at 12:03am
Originally posted by redback

You only need your bouancy aid or tiller extension to touch the outside boat to make a point and this is what boat 2 should have done to boat 3.

And then you seriously risk get disqualified under Rule 2 - Fair Sailing. Read Case 73 in the ISAF casebook.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote John Wilson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 07 at 1:05am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by redback

You only need your bouancy aid or tiller extension to touch the outside boat to make a point and this is what boat 2 should have done to boat 3.

And then you seriously risk get disqualified under Rule 2 - Fair Sailing. Read Case 73 in the ISAF casebook.


If you're looking at 73, you should probably look at 74 as well then! I was presuming redback meant it more in the 74 way than the 73.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 07 at 8:01am

Originally posted by John Wilson

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by redback

You only need your bouancy aid or tiller extension to touch the outside boat to make a point and this is what boat 2 should have done to boat 3.

And then you seriously risk get disqualified under Rule 2 - Fair Sailing. Read Case 73 in the ISAF casebook.


If you're looking at 73, you should probably look at 74 as well then! I was presuming redback meant it more in the 74 way than the 73.

 

Are the cases on-line anywhere ?

Went to look up 73 and 74 and cannot find my book

I assume 73 is the "leaning back with arms on trapeze and touching/hitting the shroud; not normal sailing position" case ?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 07 at 8:55am

Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Are the cases on-line anywhere ?

If you dig around on the ISAF website, the case histories are available as a large PDF file. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 07 at 7:20pm
There RYA case book can be downloaded from the racing section of the RYA website
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 07 at 8:42pm
give me a while to play with TSS and il write my view from an umpires position.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 07 at 9:50pm
I assume you mean a situation like this:



If so then:

- the rules that apply up until 2 boat lengths depend on how the overlaps were established. (I'm guessing that the case is that green came from behind to overlap to windward of yellow and grey the same to boat 2.)

- If my assumption is correct then rule 11 and 16 apply.

- Once 2 boat lengths is reached then rule 18 applies

- Rule 18.2(a) applies as does 18.2(d) which means rule 16 does not

- Therefore as soon as yellow luffs to round the mark green must immediately do so and so must grey to avoid green

- Yellow should protest green for not keeping clear and green should protest grey to follow the room at a mark rules fully

- The fact that the contact was between yellow and green i assume was because when boat 1 luffed to get around the mark then green decided he couldn't luff aggressively because of grey

- Therefore green broke rule 18.2 and grey broke rule 18.2 green would be exonerated under 18.2(e) and 14 as he made an attempt to avoid contact.

- I will email it to a few more senior umpires but they may be a little busy at the moment with that little competition in Valencia.








Edited by Calum_Reid
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