Pre-start incident. Opinion wanted.

   So the other day I watched the start of a dinghy race. Conditions were challenging, little to no wind with short patchy gusts and a strong ebb tide making it possible to stand still while sailing in the lulls. A group of Lasers lined up on starboard behind the starboard end of the line ready to accelerate to the line in the last few seconds. A slower Laser Bahia was to windward past the committee boat at the end of the line. The adverse current gave it momentum so they slipped in past the CB into the gap that the Lasers had between them and the line. They did this while always being on starboard also. As they rounded up onto a beat in front of the Lasers the current caught them and stopped them dead only a couple of feet clear ahead. As this happened a gust hit the Lasers and they accelerated en masse towards the line. The trouble was that the space they were aiming for had just been filled by a now stationary Bahia. The boat furthest to leeward had luffing rights over the other overlapped Lasers, nobody dumped sails and tried to stop their boats, the Bahia was parked, and three boats tried to get into a gap now only big enough for two. The rest is obvious.Everyone, including the RO, was convinced that the Bahia was at fault with accusations of barging the start and other such non-rules flying about. But I'm not convinced and this is why:
The Bahia was a same tack boat and to windward before the start but using the current from slightly upwind of the others it actually past them clear ahead. As it rounded up in front of the start line and was stopped by the current, with inches between its transom and the front of the Lasers behind, it was still behind the line and clear ahead (albeit for a nanosecond). I see an argument that the Lasers had become overtaking boats and they should have realised they had nowhere to go so should have dumped their sails when the gust hit to avoid the '3 boats in the space of 2' sandwich. The Bahia had essentially lost the ability to move or avoid a collision due to being stopped in the current, something it could not have anticipated, whereas the Lasers always had the option to anticipate and not use the gust to accelerate to the line. One could go further and say the mistake was them lining up more that a boat length from the line and therefore allowing the windward Bahia the opportunity to reach in in front of them and round up for the start.
Would love to know others opinions. I think the Bahia was unfairly penalised, it was 50/50 at best, and some members need to learn how to stop their boats when needed!

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Dee Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 15 Jun 25 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dee Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Pre-start incident. Opinion wanted. Posted: 15 Jun 25 at 11:30am
	So the other day I watched the start of a dinghy race. Conditions were challenging, little to no wind with short patchy gusts and a strong ebb tide making it possible to stand still while sailing in the lulls. A group of Lasers lined up on starboard behind the starboard end of the line ready to accelerate to the line in the last few seconds. A slower Laser Bahia was to windward past the committee boat at the end of the line. The adverse current gave it momentum so they slipped in past the CB into the gap that the Lasers had between them and the line. They did this while always being on starboard also. As they rounded up onto a beat in front of the Lasers the current caught them and stopped them dead only a couple of feet clear ahead. As this happened a gust hit the Lasers and they accelerated en masse towards the line. The trouble was that the space they were aiming for had just been filled by a now stationary Bahia. The boat furthest to leeward had luffing rights over the other overlapped Lasers, nobody dumped sails and tried to stop their boats, the Bahia was parked, and three boats tried to get into a gap now only big enough for two. The rest is obvious. Everyone, including the RO, was convinced that the Bahia was at fault with accusations of barging the start and other such non-rules flying about. But I'm not convinced and this is why: The Bahia was a same tack boat and to windward before the start but using the current from slightly upwind of the others it actually past them clear ahead. As it rounded up in front of the start line and was stopped by the current, with inches between its transom and the front of the Lasers behind, it was still behind the line and clear ahead (albeit for a nanosecond). I see an argument that the Lasers had become overtaking boats and they should have realised they had nowhere to go so should have dumped their sails when the gust hit to avoid the '3 boats in the space of 2' sandwich. The Bahia had essentially lost the ability to move or avoid a collision due to being stopped in the current, something it could not have anticipated, whereas the Lasers always had the option to anticipate and not use the gust to accelerate to the line. One could go further and say the mistake was them lining up more that a boat length from the line and therefore allowing the windward Bahia the opportunity to reach in in front of them and round up for the start. Would love to know others opinions. I think the Bahia was unfairly penalised, it was 50/50 at best, and some members need to learn how to stop their boats when needed!

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Jun 25 at 3:16pm
	What was the punishment ? Not sure about the Bahia, would think it had become an obstruction. The third Laser probably should have been penalised, he couldn't fit so he should have backed off.
	Robert

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jun 25 at 9:36pm
	Well, overtaking boats isn't a rule either... Its always best to draw these things out. By the sound of it at the start of things the Bahia was windward boat, and all the Lasers had ROW over her. The Bahia swooped into a gap, which she is entitled to do provided she keeps clear of ROW boats. If she then became clear ahead of some or all the Lasers by the definition then she gained Right of Way over some or all of them (RRS 12). However she gained ROW by her own actions, so she must initially give the other boats room to keep clear (RRS15). Room is defined as space while manoeuvring promptly in a seamanlike way. So to my mind a PC would have had to establish two things. The first is whether she was actually clear ahead by definition of all the Lasers, or whether she was still overlapped with any of them. The second is whether, when she parked up in front of them, she actually gave all the Lasers enough room to keep clear according to the definition. A PC would have to work through it all, but it seems very unlikely she was clear ahead of every boat on the start line if she was on a close hauled course, and it also seems more than possible that the Lasers couldn't have stopped or avoided in a seamanlike way. Dumping the sail so the boom hits a ROW boat to leeward, for instance, probably wouldn't be classed as seamanlike.Its all in the detail, but to my mind its certainly very possible for the Bahia to get penalised.