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Ground effect foiling sailing vessel
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Pyza View Drop Down
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Joined: 27 May 20
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Posts: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pyza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ground effect foiling sailing vessel
    Posted: 03 Jun 20 at 2:03pm
Hey new user, first post, should be an interesting one for you all. 

I won't have the money to build this, but was wondering what you all think so I thought to just share with the community.

The idea is to take a the new Americas Cup sailing monohulls, merge it with the concept of the russian lun class ekranoplan GEV. Basically it is a plane that doesn't fly and only hovers above the water on a cushion of air. 

Right now I believe there is a ton of load on those leeward foiling arms to keep the whole vessel airborne and this idea would help the vessels float and keep the vessel level by using the wings instead of the foil (more surface area, larger resistance and symmetrical) Could stop those airborne flights that cause the vessels to capsize. 

Probably be a bit crazy for match racing, not like these vessels won't be - but I was thinking about longer races and when we hit the speed wall. This system I think, would be more stable and take into the aerodynamics of the new foiling sailing vessels vs just the hydrodynamic approach. 

Im not an engineer, just a curious mind. What do you think? 
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Riv View Drop Down
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Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 20 at 12:29pm
Looks interesting, like your sketches, they get the idea over well.

Probably best to post on the:
https://www.boatdesign.net/ as someone on that site may well have thought about this already
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andy h View Drop Down
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Posts: 69 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andy h Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 20 at 10:01am
Or there's always the Amateur Yacht Research Society: https://www.ayrs.org/ (can't get the link to work so you'll have to cut & paste, not sure what's happened to the forum formatting of late, gone weird for me).  The AYRS are a bunch of free thinkers who might pick the idea up and run with it.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 20 at 12:09pm
Love the sketches.

My first thought, though, is drag.
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 20 at 1:17pm
Would be cool to try!

I did a project on WIGs many moons ago, and have sometimes wondered if the wings of a Moth couldn’t double as ground effect wings. However there are many complexities to ground effect vehicles and you have to be quite close to the ground to get much benefit - this means on small craft you are limited by wave height. Pitch stability is a big factor and reverse-delta wings are often used because of this (like Concorde wings backwards), but the rudder t-foil might be quite useful there (which powered WiGs don’t have).
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tink View Drop Down
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 20 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by Pyza

Hey new user, first post, should be an interesting one for you all. 

I won't have the money to build this, but was wondering what you all think so I thought to just share with the community.

The idea is to take a the new Americas Cup sailing monohulls, merge it with the concept of the russian lun class ekranoplan GEV. Basically it is a plane that doesn't fly and only hovers above the water on a cushion of air. 

Right now I believe there is a ton of load on those leeward foiling arms to keep the whole vessel airborne and this idea would help the vessels float and keep the vessel level by using the wings instead of the foil (more surface area, larger resistance and symmetrical) Could stop those airborne flights that cause the vessels to capsize. 

Probably be a bit crazy for match racing, not like these vessels won't be - but I was thinking about longer races and when we hit the speed wall. This system I think, would be more stable and take into the aerodynamics of the new foiling sailing vessels vs just the hydrodynamic approach. 

Im not an engineer, just a curious mind. What do you think? 

Nice sketching. Pretty sure that’s what Blue Arrow was trying to achieve. 

I prefer the Leeward foil on the end of the wing, on your current AC inspired design it isn’t going to take too much heel for the wing to crash into the water. Deeply immersed T foils with incident control have to be more efficient that rules influenced ones we have now that require aerospace computing. Also the windward one can give a little bit of negative lift. 
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william Merrill View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		Post Options Post Options   Quote william Merrill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 20 at 10:56pm
Ever since I read about how lift-to-drag ratios are so high in ground effect Lyft I have dreamed of ground effect sailboats. These sailboats really would fly. The amount of surface area needed with a wing designed for surface effect is very small in comparison to the load they can carry. Ground effect has been a problem in small plane flight for a long time just as you get ready to land your wings lift improves incredibly and you've got to really change your wing to get it to sit down on the runway
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 20 at 7:57am
The question, though, is not whether lift to drag is greater in ground effect than in free air, but whether lift to drag in ground effect is better than lift to drag in water.
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