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RS moving to open development sails?

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    Posted: 07 Feb 19 at 10:20am
Originally posted by PaulPoshW

What's to stop a sail maker with the fastest design (assuming tolerances are allowed) charging more than the max price?
Should the class take off and attract top teams surely they would pay an extra £ or 2 for the sails most likely to win. And why shouldn't a sail maker who has spent time and money to develop that get something in return?


Their contract with RS who will terminate it meaning they cannot make class legal sails.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 19 at 11:17am
Class rules state a maximum price. But that's enforced by sailors, so they could pay more and not tell anyone? Would be pretty underhand. 

I don't get from the article quite how 'bought in' each sail maker has to be. It could allow lots of smaller and local sail maker to service more difficult to reach locations. But that would depend on the minimum buy in (sail material i guess). 

Is the button to mark that a sail is class legal? Or just that the royalty has been paid? More measuring at events or a hell of a trust that individual sail-makers don't 'sign off' out of spec sails. 

It's good to RS trying new things, and this is definitely a new market for them. At the very least it means all the top pro's who are sponsored by various lofts can happily jump in the RS21 too.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 19 at 11:35am
Originally posted by mozzy


Is the button to mark that a sail is class legal? Or just that the royalty has been paid? More measuring at events or a hell of a trust that individual sail-makers don't 'sign off' out of spec sails. 

It's good to RS trying new things, and this is definitely a new market for them. At the very least it means all the top pro's who are sponsored by various lofts can happily jump in the RS21 too.

I would guess the CA/RS supply the buttons so if it aint got one then it aint class legal (same as a Laser). Quite how that might work if an agreement gets terminated then the sailmaker will probably have a small stock of both cloth and buttons (the cloth is propriety and supplied by RS or under agreeement).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote KazRob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 19 at 12:16pm
The GPs already use a maximum price sail model so if it works for them why wouldn't it work for others?
https://www.gp14.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Maximum_Prices_Dec-2017_web.pdf
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 19 at 12:23pm
I think with laser it's the builder who appoints the sail makers and provides buttons at a price. The sails don't go direct from loft to sailor so there is no incentive for the loft to do anything other than make cheap sails within tolerances. The button means class legal and royalty paid. 

In the RS21 case local loft will be selling their sails direct to sailors. Thus there is a lot of incentive to provide your customers with faster sails.  Surely in this case the button can't automatically mean class legal like the laser? 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 19 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by mozzy

I think with laser it's the builder who appoints the sail makers and provides buttons at a price. The sails don't go direct from loft to sailor so there is no incentive for the loft to do anything other than make cheap sails within tolerances. The button means class legal and royalty paid. 

In the RS21 case local loft will be selling their sails direct to sailors. Thus there is a lot of incentive to provide your customers with faster sails.  Surely in this case the button can't automatically mean class legal like the laser? 

I would guess they will buy the buttons in bulk, I wont be feasable to order a button each time they make a set of sails.

The Laser buttons are actually from ILCA rather than the builder if memory serves and the pattern is fixed and supplied so no room for improvements (although Hydes were always favoured over Norths when I sailed Lasers)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 19 at 12:47pm
I guess it depends where the price cap is and how tightly controlled the design is. If the cap is too high and there is significant freedom then in reality this isn’t much different to any OD class. If the cap is too low and the design freedom is very limited this will result in the sails being mere commodities with no difference in price or design.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote By The Lee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 19 at 5:48pm
The problem with maximum prices are you end up with two cases:
1. The maximum price is set above the market price thereby having no effect on the price
2. The maximum price is set below the market price thereby not enough sailing makers are willing to make the product to satisfy demand
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 19 at 9:35pm
But what is market price? Generally a sail that wins stuff costs more to buy than one that doesn't. Materials and labour costs won't be much different, though.
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