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What are the Supernovas doing right?
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jeffers View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Jun 18 at 8:15am
Supportive builder and a favourable handicap along with a relatively available second hand market (even if you want a Mk2e).

Many people are suprised that despite the diet the boat has got a fair bit slower since.
Paul
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zippyRN View Drop Down
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Posts: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 18 at 9:36am
Originally posted by H2

Originally posted by mozzy

If it's a fleet race, there won't be any times taken, and even if there was, then there wouldn't be another class of boat to compare against. 

I had just assumed this - perhaps wrongly - based on the large number of races recorded against Laser's each year in the data. I would be very surprised if that number of races was only in handicap fleets? Also - I know that open and national fellet race data is sent to RYA who use it - I assumed - to work out how individuals stacked up nationally against people in the same boat as that is handy data when you then look at the same people's results back at XYZ club handicap race returns and gives you some calibration as to whether they should be able to win...or not

That is based on the presumption that  where there is a class  fleet at a club  it only races as a class ... 

rather than there being  parallel  PY  series ,  that all races  every racing day  are class ( and  not  that 1 or 2 out of 3 or 4 in a day  inland  are  PY and the others class series ) , if  you have weekday evening  racing how much of that is a class series and how much is a PY series 
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 18 at 9:52am

Paul

It is hardly the Supernova's fault that the Portsmouth Number system works the way it does.  The RYA methodology is pretty crude if you want to work out the performance potential and not simply the average of ALL boats in this class or that.  

Lobby the RYA ... they collect buckets of date ... but choose not to adjust it to take account or emphasize the performance potential of  'better examples' within a class.   The argument that 'more' is necessarily 'better' when it comes to data preparation is simply a fallacy.  You cannot really blame the class for that !! 

I know of a newer niche class where the more RECENT boats are apparently quite a bit heavier than the early ones... for durability reasons we assume.    (Can't make it up really Wink)  Do we assume the early boats are the 'ringers' there.... or should the RYA just reject all but say the top 25% in results to get a better picture of class potential performance as this can sort age and weight issues anyway (ie the results of the faster boats are the ones processed)

The Supernova's are perhaps doing it right because they get on with the important internal  'class things' - and this might well include keeping a relatively low profile on the more public forums !  Discuss ....

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Edited by Cirrus - 04 Jun 18 at 9:55am
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 18 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

Paul

It is hardly the Supernova's fault that the Portsmouth Number system works the way it does.  The RYA methodology is pretty crude if you want to work out the performance potential and not simply the average of ALL boats in this class or that.  

Lobby the RYA ... they collect buckets of date ... but choose not to adjust it to take account or emphasize the performance potential of  'better examples' within a class.   The argument that 'more' is necessarily 'better' when it comes to data preparation is simply a fallacy.  You cannot really blame the class for that !! 

I know of a newer niche class where the more RECENT boats are apparently quite a bit heavier than the early ones... for durability reasons we assume.    (Can't make it up really Wink)  Do we assume the early boats are the 'ringers' there.... or should the RYA just reject all but say the top 25% in results to get a better picture of class potential performance as this can sort age and weight issues anyway (ie the results of the faster boats are the ones processed)

The Supernova's are perhaps doing it right because they get on with the important internal  'class things' - and this might well include keeping a relatively low profile on the more public forums !  Discuss ....

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I never said it was, I know how PY works. it just makes the PY very favourable compared to other classes (which can sell boats to pot hunters). 

The more significant thing here is the level of builder involvement which is good to see. Just wish a few more would do the same.
Paul
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Jubilado Jim View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jubilado Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 18 at 4:23pm
There seems to have been a sudden glut of secondhand Supernovas on Apollo Duck - particularly early ones. Anyone know why? 
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elzorillo View Drop Down
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Posts: 58 		Post Options Post Options   Quote elzorillo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 18 at 10:34pm
...'There seems to have been a sudden glut of secondhand Supernovas on Apollo Duck - particularly early ones. Anyone know why? '



Few sellers trying it on.. attempting to cash in with poor specimens in the run up to the nationals maybe.

Pal of mine drove 3.5 hours to boltonsc to look at an 'excellent boat in perfect condition' only to find it full of cracks, the stay mounts ripping through the hull and a heel sized hole in the floor. He was a lot more polite than I would have been. Last time I checked it was still listed as the same.


Edited by elzorillo - 04 Jun 18 at 10:37pm
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JohnJack View Drop Down
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Posts: 246 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 18 at 8:28am
Nice boats for sale, Solo's have 77 pre entries I believe. 
Maybe they are on the wave of the success of the Solo's which is inflating the prices on their second hand market. Solo's have now gone out of some peoples budgets, so Supernova is the cheaper option?
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 18 at 11:01am
Originally posted by JohnJack

Nice boats for sale, Solo's have 77 pre entries I believe. 
Maybe they are on the wave of the success of the Solo's which is inflating the prices on their second hand market. Solo's have now gone out of some peoples budgets, so Supernova is the cheaper option?

Possibly, but most Solo sailors at my local club wouldnt touch a SN. usually due to the cockpit depth issues (knackered knees in most cases).
Paul
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