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So what does the world need in a new dinghy then?

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Do Different View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 10:35am
Just what is the latest on the Icon? 
Although not my favoured type of two person, three sail, one wire boat, I really thought the Icon had the legs to make it and was willing to open my mind to the concept.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 10:37am
I will not sail in drifters, totally boring, sailing for the sake of sailing, I work on club facilities or boats, same with howlers, I will crew in a howler though, some of our members only turn up when it's bonkers.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 10:44am
Originally posted by davidyacht

....
I suspect that symmetric 200s or 400s would have offered more flexibility for most of the Sailing clubs in the UK in the long game.



200's and 400's are very different animals.

The 400 is maybe not ideal for 'most sailing clubs in the UK', but those of us who sail on decent water are happy to let the puddle boys carry on sailing 'boats which don't even burn quickly'.
A 400 with a conventional kite would have got nowhere. It would just be another 'me too' design knocked out to try and undercut the price of a Merlin.

The assy kite makes racing 400's against other 400 great downwind IME. I love being able to go a good way off the direct line looking for better breeze, tide or shifts. It may not be fast in absolute terms but what other boat is going to hit 20knots with my wife crewing?
 On PY against disparate boats, it's a mixed bag, varies with the course, wind speed etc. Such is PY with disparate boats. It's the same nonsense as racing Contenders agaisnt Merlins, or Ents against 505s.

The 400 is not perfect, I've said I'm surprised and disappointed there's nothing better for me after 20 years of alleged progress. (Maybe it and I have got old together?). But it let me race against some good people. Nick Craig, Paul Hillier, David Hivey,
The 200 and the Vareo seem to hoover from side to side, to no great effect, downwind, but people seem to come ashore having enjoyed it, so provided nobody expects me to care about racing them on PY, it's all good. Luckily they are in the 'people who have missed the point and still sail boats with 4 digit PYs' fleet. :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 10:58am
Originally posted by Do Different

Just what is the latest on the Icon? 
Although not my favoured type of two person, three sail, one wire boat, I really thought the Icon had the legs to make it and was willing to open my mind to the concept.

The latest is that two people, two sails, no wires, is alive and well and racing N12's, Enterprises and Tasars.
Also Applecores, Fireflies and others no doubt.

I followed the Icon development as I was interested in how rigs and hulls had moved on, but only saw one once in the flesh and it didn't excite. The rig, upwind, and hull should have told us a lot about what an RS400 successor might be like. But on that front I'd take more direction from the Merlin.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 11:17am
Thanks. I suppose that sums it up about new boats taking off. If people like the type they have and have friends and emotional capital in a particular class it would take something really special to make you bin your current ride.
I guess the Aero / DZero have got off the ground due to enough disaffected actual or theoretical  Laser sailors jumping ship.
I took just a little more than a passing interest in the Icon because I was vaguely considering changing boat type. Having decided to stay with type I can see no compelling reasons to switch classes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 2:44pm

A gap exists between the 'proper' asymmetrics, where apparent wind sailing really starts to work and the other group where although they sport the rig they cannot really be regarded as 'true' asymmetrics.  (If you like typified by boats with minimum 400 pace  ... or by 200 speed type boats).  In this range, imo at least, asymmetrics are more than given a run for their money by several good symmetrical spinnaker boats (Scorpion/Merlin etc) or even by the odd 2-sail boat in the UK (well I would still say that ...!).   

Developing potential 'new' boats in any sector is always problematic in a likely declining market.  The best route for any producer at the moment could be to simply improve what they already have...  Either by developing/improving their current offerings or reducing the core production costs.  Ideally 'more for less' should be the objective – if possible.  The UK is a niche market and now faces a difficult future with material inflation (nearly all materials for boats are imported - the currency already devalued by upwards of 20ish%).   Before anyone starts on the ‘value-adding’ done here do note that the UK labour element is but a small part of the overall build spend.


I'd expect to see most makers hunkering down this year and beyond for a while, cutting costs, no new launches, and still making a few quid on parts for existing boats and a lower number of new UK boat sales where they can.  If they already have the channels in place they will be working hard on exporting what they have.   A better (less worse) prospect for exporters and really tough times ahead for importers who will need to be able to live with significantly reduced margins to sell here for who knows how long ... maybe forever.    

I would not expect to see too many new pure racing boat types for quite some time   .. except perhaps on this forum !



Edited by Cirrus - 22 Jan 17 at 5:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by Do Different

Just what is the latest on the Icon? 
Although not my favoured type of two person, three sail, one wire boat, I really thought the Icon had the legs to make it and was willing to open my mind to the concept.


The Icon, only had two sails and was a hiker. I think you mean the Alto?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 8:27pm
Nope, I just need to improve my grammar.  Smile

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