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Woodburner View Drop Down
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Posts: 332 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hot angles over dead running - Icon content
    Posted: 06 Apr 15 at 7:16pm
So, we know planing with kites makes it work.

Having totally fouled up a start in our first sea race of the season we found ourselves playing catch up in a freshening but unreliably gusty breeze and playing nip and tuck with an L4k, I seriously wanted to heat it up on a couple of legs, but chickened out and goose winged and each time it was boring but better.

So the question is a) If any of the other Icon Users have a formula for when to go for high and fast rather than low and slow. Or maybe the Tasar, are there times it works?

Any other none kited boats OK foils excepted where it's feasible?
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Posts: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 15 at 8:33pm
You are unlikely to benefit from heating it up on a run in a traditional sense. What may work is the way a laser plays the waves on a run, sailing by the lea by letting all the kicker off, pulling the jib In a little as reverse flow occurs. Then heading up, pull main in a little and let jib go forward. You should be able to keep it surfing/ planing for longer. If you can get hold of the star medal race video from Beijing you will see Percy and Bart doing this really well. I tried it in the N12 after that. I found it worked a treat. Only time I could keep up with the lightweights downwid was going down the run. I think it was more effective pre foiling rudders.
You may find that on the reaches heating up may work initially, very much like you would with an asymmetric. You would only ever tell if there was another one though.

Andy

Edited by andymck - 06 Apr 15 at 8:33pm
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Posts: 332 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 15 at 10:33pm
Funny you should say that, it was exactly what we were trying, goose winged, I noticed the Snipes doing it at their Open last summer, not that the waves were of any consequence, but it is definitely a useful technique.
I'd just like the main to be capable of being able to sheet out more, the bloody stays in the way, it was shifty as f**k and standing up as I was, there were a couple of times I was worried about getting a gybing heave ho over the side for my trouble.
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andymck View Drop Down
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Posts: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 15 at 10:39pm
The boat will be more stable with you both on the sides. Someone tried to explain once, something to do with a chap called Newton.
Just make sure the kicker can go right off. And steer into the inward role.

Edited by andymck - 06 Apr 15 at 10:40pm
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NickA View Drop Down
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Posts: 784 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 15 at 10:44pm
Or put a kite on it

Tho actually that raises even more questions about angles.
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JohnJack View Drop Down
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Posts: 246 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 15 at 2:31pm
Never thought you would get the speed in a two sailed boat to overcome the extra distance covered (better VMG) in a two sailed boat on a reach.

I suppose if heat it up to get over the initial drag and get the boat planing then head down whilst trying to keep it on the plane/play the waves there may be an advantage.

Though Icon looks pretty quick from the PY so my thinking may be a bit outdated
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 15 at 3:00pm
Every polar diagram I've ever seen, including even keelboats, has shown a genuine 180 degree run to be slow. However for most slower boats the law of diminishing returns sets in something around 155 or 160 degrees, which is well within the range of a goosewinged jib with a decent length pole.

An interesting experiment is, when you think you're on a dead run, gybe the boat without changing direction and see if the boat handling and sheeting is exactly the same on the opposite gybe. If its not - well you weren't at 180 degrees. A GPS track can be quite revealing, as is, if when on RC duty you have managed to set a dead true run back to the start boat, looking at the fleet going down the run and seeing them scattered from side to side.

Something I don't understand at all is that the windex on my IC appears to point directly over the bow when sailing deep, but a good 15 degrees off 180.

Edited by JimC - 09 Apr 15 at 6:26pm
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 15 at 3:48pm
For most slow boats, you just want to be far enough off DDW to get a little bit of flow over the sails. I've always assumed I was no more than 5 degrees off, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn I'm wrong. For the Icon, who knows? Only way to find out is to try various angles in various wind speeds and sea states against other Icons, see who comes out on top.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 15 at 6:44pm
I think I've got a theoretical set of polars for the Icon somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it out.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 15 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Only way to find out is to try various angles in various wind speeds and sea states against other Icons, see who comes out on top.

your plan has been scuppered....
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