runnng by the lee

   ok so trying to explain to my daughter about running by the lee. she is finding that when she tries to get the windward heel and holds the boom out the sail is backing. from where i was (a couple of legs on) i couldnt see what was going on.  i M guessing she is heading too far downwind and needs to gybe? any ideas on how to explain it to her? she is 10....could do with a "do this and this and this " explanation rather than all the aerodynamics that usually comes in the articles. the why can come later!

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Eminoxon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 12 Jun 13 Location: Bicester Online Status: Offline Posts: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eminoxon Report Post Quote Reply Topic: runnng by the lee Posted: 18 Jan 15 at 11:07pm
	ok so trying to explain to my daughter about running by the lee. she is finding that when she tries to get the windward heel and holds the boom out the sail is backing. from where i was (a couple of legs on) i couldnt see what was going on. i M guessing she is heading too far downwind and needs to gybe? any ideas on how to explain it to her? she is 10....could do with a "do this and this and this " explanation rather than all the aerodynamics that usually comes in the articles. the why can come later!
	Newtothis RS feva 4624, share Rs200 1317, daughters RS tera 798 rs aero 1301

Jamesd Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 01 Feb 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 377	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jamesd Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jan 15 at 10:14am
	stick a windex on the mast infront of her, if it is pointing towards the sail then she is sailing by the lee.

Woodbotherer Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Posting king Joined: 11 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 192	Post Options Post Reply Quote Woodbotherer Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jan 15 at 10:25am
	I know a bit about this having studied it. Initially it helps to dump the kicker especially if you have a boat with shrouds The windward heel happens because of the reversal in the wind flow direction, we used to call it sailing clew first in windsurfing terms all the power moves towards the mast. So, to do it properly the clew needs to be forward of the mast, it gets to be quite a precarious balancing act and as the wind gusts the mast moves to what would have been the weather side, but it also depowers very quickly and comes back again, setting up the rolling motion that brings about the 'death roll' which in order to avoid needs to be steered into, or hardened up to regain control before letting the boom go forward again. At least that's how I've found it, other boats might not have the EPS ability to depower letting the rig go right forward, so if the boat has shrouds I expect you'e need to come high to regain control. What sort of boat are we talking about? (probably should have asked this first).
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gordon1277 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 665	Post Options Post Reply Quote gordon1277 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jan 15 at 11:09am
	GRF Looking at the bottom of his post it says Tera so no shrouds to worry about. Not going to offer help as Phantoms tend to find very broad reaching quicker for us.
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Woodbotherer Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Posting king Joined: 11 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 192	Post Options Post Reply Quote Woodbotherer Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jan 15 at 11:16am
	Tera? RS? Doesn't it have a jib? Or am I thinking Feva? I shall have to go look it up.. EDit, OK looked it up, no jib it's one of these and here's a pic with a girl (front right running by the lee ). Note she's on the opposite tack to the others so the airflow will be reversed across her rig. Edited by Woodbotherer - 19 Jan 15 at 11:23am
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E.J. Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 19 Feb 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 184	Post Options Post Reply Quote E.J. Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jan 15 at 12:07pm
	in my experience to transition from a deep reach through Dead downwind and then by the lee need to be done smoothly and with momentum. When rounding a mark onto an appropriate leg for RBTL simply pointing the boat in the right direction a pushing the boom out will back the sail, make the boat stop and ultimalty want to gybe. I've found the best way is to come round the mark or out of a gybe onto a broad reach to get the boat speed up, then sail in a slow curve through DDW whilst letting the sail out and increasing the heel of the boat as you would going into a gybe; but rather than pulling the boom across and pulling the Tiller further toward you, you need the let the sail go out a little further until the tale tells point towards the mast and the straighten the tiller. At this point you will be by-the-lee and judging whether you want to go more or less past dead down wind using boat heel and less tiller. The further past DDW you go the more precarious the balance becomes, with diminishing returns as it would be just as quick to gybe onto a broad reach; but there is a sweet spot that just feels right. in boats with shrouds, By lee can be achieved with lots of twist, but there is a limit to how 'deep' you can go.

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jan 15 at 12:14pm
	Go dead down wind, let sail out to the point where when you heel the boat to windward, the boom will want to fall forwards against the mainsheet not back into the boat, heel the boat to windward and bear away a few degrees. This way there will be air flow over the sail, rather than it just pushing the boat DDW. With practice, you can swith between by the lee and a very, very broad reach to choose the best route to the bottom mark. A fun game is to see just how far you can bear away, letting the sail further and further out (do it in light winds, and take a purchase out of the system if the mainsheet is too short). It is possible to get onto a beam reach with the sail out in front of the boat, but you do need to keep the boat heeled. In the end, the boat may decide it is going to spin and it all goes wrong. In stronger winds, you get wet at this point, making it a great summer kids game.
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Eminoxon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 12 Jun 13 Location: Bicester Online Status: Offline Posts: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eminoxon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jan 15 at 5:27pm
	fab thanks for all your replies. i can make sense of it and hopefully she will too. practice practice practice!
	Newtothis RS feva 4624, share Rs200 1317, daughters RS tera 798 rs aero 1301