handicap system

   I am trying to work out how much time ahead my friends son needs to be in a tera pro to still beat my daughter in a tera sport (or rather the other way round! how far behind can she be and still beat him!) Is this comparable to the persuit timings? the rya persuit timings give the sport a 4 minute head start over 60 mins, our races vary between 45 mins and and hour, so for a 45 min race this would seem to mean she has 3 mins of time to cross the line and be first. However when looking at the race results this doesnt seem to be the case. any Ideas? would be good if she (and he) had a rough idea.Thanks

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Eminoxon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 12 Jun 13 Location: Bicester Online Status: Offline Posts: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eminoxon Report Post Quote Reply Topic: handicap system Posted: 18 Jan 15 at 5:55pm
	I am trying to work out how much time ahead my friends son needs to be in a tera pro to still beat my daughter in a tera sport (or rather the other way round! how far behind can she be and still beat him!) Is this comparable to the persuit timings? the rya persuit timings give the sport a 4 minute head start over 60 mins, our races vary between 45 mins and and hour, so for a 45 min race this would seem to mean she has 3 mins of time to cross the line and be first. However when looking at the race results this doesnt seem to be the case. any Ideas? would be good if she (and he) had a rough idea. Thanks
	Newtothis RS feva 4624, share Rs200 1317, daughters RS tera 798 rs aero 1301

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jan 15 at 6:15pm
	Well, it also depends on what handicaps your club is using. But lets go with current published, which I think is 1351 and 1451. If we start with 1 minutes sailing for the tera pro, that's 60 seconds. 60/1351 (Tera Pro handicap) 1000 = 44.4 seconds corrected time. Now lets take 44.4 1451 (Tera Sport handicap) /1000 = 64.4, which gives us the elapsed time needed for the Tera sport to tie with the Tera pro. So if the Pro sails for 45 minutes (45 * 44.4) it will have a corrected time of 1998 seconds. And if the Sport sails for 2900 seconds it will also have a corrected time of 1998 seconds. 2900 secs is 48 minutes 20 seconds. So if the Pro sails exactly 45 minutes the Sport wins if its less than 3 minutes 20 secs behind. Personally I always abjectly fail to do these sums in my head, and never manage to record what time the other boat finishes anyway, so have to wait for the results! Edited by JimC - 18 Jan 15 at 6:18pm

Eminoxon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 12 Jun 13 Location: Bicester Online Status: Offline Posts: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eminoxon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jan 15 at 6:25pm
	Thanks JimC, yes we are using the standard py values. The boy came in first overall (!)on paper today but they had him down as being in a sport rig so the results need to be well adjusted. I guess his corrected time will be significantly different. All good fun. The club are going to hate it when I get my new aero, Im sure there will be lots of arguments about PY values then, especially by the laser sailors!
	Newtothis RS feva 4624, share Rs200 1317, daughters RS tera 798 rs aero 1301

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jan 15 at 6:56pm
	All these very similar looking but very different performance boats are a right royal pain for the average once a year club race office to sort out and identify correctly, which in turn means that they are a right royal pain for trying to work out handicaps.

Eminoxon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 12 Jun 13 Location: Bicester Online Status: Offline Posts: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eminoxon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jan 15 at 8:35pm
	they know he is in a pro, its just our old system doesnt have the pro on it. we are in the process of moving to sailwave and are currently doing both systems, so when it grts upladed onto the web it will be sorted out as the sailwave system has the pro rig on it.
	Newtothis RS feva 4624, share Rs200 1317, daughters RS tera 798 rs aero 1301

fab100 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1005	Post Options Post Reply Quote fab100 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jan 15 at 5:24am
	Does it have to be that complicated Jim? I went for 45 mins times 1451/1351 which came to 48.33 mins, so 48mins 20 seconds. Same answer, easier sums. For an hour, 60 mins times 1451/1351, giving 4 mins 26 secs
	Great book for Club Sailors here

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jan 15 at 12:32pm
	Or, as a rough guess on the water, 1 minute per 20 points of handicap per hour - important for the 2nd boat, as they are going to be far too busy sailing to do maths, but might manage to glance at their watch when they hear the hoot for the faster boat, but by my experience, won't really see what the seconds are doing anyway, just the minutes, without losing concentration. The boat that has finished can do the maths while waiting...
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Eminoxon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 12 Jun 13 Location: Bicester Online Status: Offline Posts: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eminoxon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 16 at 8:01pm
	ok this was all great and very useful, but today the time sailed was 43 mins by the sport and 41.5 mins by the pro, so the difference was only 1.5mins. the numbers were entered into sailwave and it spat out that he beat her....surely not?
	Newtothis RS feva 4624, share Rs200 1317, daughters RS tera 798 rs aero 1301