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Daggerboards: profiles, planforms, paranoia

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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Daggerboards: profiles, planforms, paranoia
    Posted: 12 Oct 14 at 7:50am
Originally posted by ChrisB14

 I think possibly the D-Zero foils might make the better example.


The D-Zero foils are very nice indeed. They certainly look right and you get very little if any 'noise' at planing speed and the rudder is nice and light and responsive.

If you spoke to Rodney @ Suntouched or Dan Holman they might be able to give you a few pointers. They both hang around here so find them in the users list and drop them a PM.

Failing that find your nearest D-Zero owner and go and take a look (there are quite a few in Cambs, myself included if you are local).
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Glitcher7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 14 at 6:49pm
Hi Chris,

My build is still in progress but I made a reasonable amount of progress over the summer and am now filling and fairing the hull (Or at least I will when I get back home from Uni at Xmas)

With regards to foils, I am using a 0009 section for the daggerboard and a 0011 section for the rudder. I would have gone for a thicker section for the daggerboard but the daggerboard case ended up being only 22mm thick. This was because the lengths that made up the thickness of the girder were only 22mm thick. If you haven't made up the girder yet then I would suggest trying to pack this up with filler to get a thickness closer to 24mm (Max. thickness in the class rules AIUI) at that point. I had originally planned to make a foam core board but I thought 22mm was too narrow to do this easily. Instead I am using spruce.

In terms of planform, I agree that a reasonable amount of rake is fast with the 3.7 because the rig has a fair amount of rake. Having looked at a few aeroplane wings that are swept back I noticed that they almost all have tip that is parallel to the centre line. I was also planning on using virtually no fore-aft taper because I want to get maximum power out of the rig (I have gained a reasonable amount of weight since I started the build!).

I think that turbulent 00XX sections are the way to go with the 3.7 because it is so twitchy and hence angle of attack can vary quite a lot as the helm corrects for gusts, waves etc. As I understand it you need to have a fairly perfect finish to keep flow attached long enough for laminar sections to really come into their own.

There are some resources on the NZ website for foil design as well which are oldish but the physics haven't changed.

Regards and good luck,
Max D
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 14 at 7:46pm
I think an 0009 section would be perfect.
If you do want to go thicker, then one way to achieve it even with your limitation on the 22mm case is to taper the board such that you get a 12% t/c some short distance along the span, and then hold the 12% thickness out towards the tip. It'll take a bit more work with templates but is doable.
A reasonable alternative to the NACA section is the Selig 9032 which has a higher L/D but a narrower operating window.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 14 at 9:29pm
Nice little story from Sailing Anarchy:

Yacht designer lives by a marina and knows an engineer living on a boat. He goes down to ask him to do some structural calculations on a keel for him, it turns out he actually is a rocket engineer/scientist

He gives the engineer the data and goes back to his office.

A few days later the engineer comes back "can't do it......too many variables".

As a pevious poster said, make what you can make well.  Try it out, if it don't work make another.

Design, make, review.




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ChrisB14 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisB14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 14 at 5:27pm
Thanks guys – lots of really helpful comments and reading suggestions! It took me a bit of time to follow up on all the recommendations (work ... constantly distracts us from the important things in life), but I definitely wanted to reply. Looking over the responses, it seems clear that there seems to be little point in trying laminar profiles. So the NACA sections (0009 for the board and 0012 for the rudder) will almost certainly be what I end up going for.

And yes: I expect to go through several repeats of the process. Still looking around to see if I can get some easy access to a CNC system to form the blank properly. The first one will be a job for good templates (laser cut) and a handheld router. 
B14 GBR 748 Bullet B
In build: Farr 3.7 GBR 410 (both sail number and the current number of loose parts)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave.B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 14 at 9:00pm
Hi Chris,
It's interesting that I went through the same dilemmas for my Farr, but ended in similar decisions. I settled for NACA 0009 daggerboard and 0012 rudder. They seem to work ok, although when I get round to it I'll do need to refinish the daggerboard as a season of use and an imperfect case means it's looking a bit shabby now. I think we'll need to use slot gaskets on the Farr's as the tapered case results in gushers of water through when planning
Dave
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ChrisB14 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisB14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 14 at 12:25pm
Dave, good to see that we came to the same conclusions. I did spend some time studying the images of your foils on your blog, though :)

Regarding the dagger case: I have been wondering how best to form the inside to get everything nice and stable, while still being smooth and supporting the board. I have been thinking about using a two-component silicone gasket fit around the board, but fear that would leave too little room for raking it. Alternatively I thought a closed cell foam gasket might do the trick. 

While I plan to leave the rudder clear, to show off the (hopefully) nice wood core, I will probably be painting the board to allow it to be as smooth as possible while still being able to take the odd bump or scratch. 
B14 GBR 748 Bullet B
In build: Farr 3.7 GBR 410 (both sail number and the current number of loose parts)
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 14 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by ChrisB14

I will probably be painting the board to allow it to be as smooth as possible while still being able to take the odd bump or scratch. 

- white so that you can more easily spot any weed: slower than the slowest planform and section!
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