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Genuine Lee-Bow Question for GRF (not a p*ss-take)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Genuine Lee-Bow Question for GRF (not a p*ss-take)
    Posted: 02 May 14 at 4:05pm
If the wind is dierctly against the tide, then both tacks will surely be identical, with the tide helping equally. But if the wind is at an angle, then one tack is going to be better at creating the apparent wind which will then help you plane.

Or are we talking going into the tide at different angles, in which case one side will be hurting the apparent wind more, so the other side will be better.

So, the lee bow tide might simply be the angle it is at when the tide and wind are working together to create better apparent wind, and have nothing to do with the cause.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 4:21pm
So what are you saying Rupert, that's all true but we're not allowed to say we're going faster because the tide is on our lee bow? (which actually creates a stronger true wind, which then enables the board to generate more apparent wind whilst the boards on the other tack have to put up with less true wind yet actually travel faster in the other direction which you would think would create more apparent wind but doesn't, why? Because of the relativity of the two fluid flows..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 4:46pm
The simple answer to all this clearly is terminology.

If you don't ever sail in tide then you don't need to know or understand and if you do sail in tide regularly then nobody needs to tell you what you already know.

But, if you coach others on the subject and tell them that tide is just a conveyor belt and all you should do is adjust for the marks by sailing up the coast a bit then race across the tidal stream against each other as if nothing is going on, then you'd better be prepared to be humiliated by an old boy who knows different and sails entirely in the other direction for his first tack, and then spends the entire crossing with that tide on his lee bow planing as your progenies battle it out off the plane to arrive at the first mark ten or twenty minutes later to find the said old boy lecturing you on your ignorance of such matters..

Edited by iGRF - 02 May 14 at 4:48pm
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L123456 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by iGRF

So what are you saying Rupert, that's all true but we're not allowed to say we're going faster because the tide is on our lee bow? (which actually creates a stronger true wind, which then enables the board to generate more apparent wind whilst the boards on the other tack have to put up with less true wind yet actually travel faster in the other direction which you would think would create more apparent wind but doesn't, why? Because of the relativity of the two fluid flows..

You are still not getting it are you ... go back and read Chris249 citations ...

The sailing wind you experience when sailing in current is the same velocity and direction regardless of which tack you are on.

It will only change if you move to an area where the current is different or if there is a change in gradient wind ...

... and on that note I'm off ... 


Edited by L123456 - 02 May 14 at 4:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by L123456



You are still not getting it are you ... go back and read Chris249 citations ...
The sailing wind you experience when sailing in current is the same velocity and direction regardless of which tack you are on.
It will only change if you move to an area where the current is different or if there is a change in gradient wind ...
... and on that note I'm off ... 



I'm not getting it?

Son you so need some help if you believe that.

I'll try one last time, you and your science friends are thinking two dimensionally, what you say is true if you just sat their sail sheeted out, you will drift slowy down wind and tide in the two fluids that are acting upon you, right up until the moment you sheet the sail in. Which then brings in the third dynamic and harnesses their collective energies.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 14 at 9:25am
Originally posted by iGRF

It's what 'some latter day idiots' are claiming the lee bow effect is, that was never claimed in my day, 

The Melges book from which I quoted was published in 1983. The "lee bow myth" was, as others have said, generally discredited by the time but it WAS claimed in your day.

Pinching to go slower in order to get the tide the right side won't have any effect. 

True - but much of this controversy may be based around the fact that, as the Melges quote proves, people did (and may still) believe that it does have that effect. There may be confusion about whether the term "lee bow effect" is a reference to that old myth, or to the fact that tide can affect apparent wind.

This appears to be a case where reasonable people may be arguing because of ill-defined and ambiguous terminology.

I can assure you that my sailing of boards in major events in tide has been on the whole more successful than most and over a longer period than anyone else still active,

You are a good windsurfer but there are other people have been sailing boards in tide for longer than you, beat you, and are still active.

Greg Johns, Lachlan and Stu Gilbert, Scotty O'Connor, Paul Ivshenko and Nevin Sayre were all top 8 in Windsurfer worlds in your era ('80-'82), all raced in strong tide at that time, and all still race at national windsurfing titles in areas of strong tide.

Geoff Masters, who won the Windsurfer Euros when you were mid fleet (22 of 48), grew up on tidal waters in Sydney, still wins boat championships in areas of strong tide and still sometimes windsurfs.

Bruce Matlack won the first windsurfer championship in history (1972) and is still windsurfing on Konas in what are, I believe, often strong tides.

All of the above had better records in Windsurfers than you do, but none of them spend as much time abusing other people as you do.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prof P Pending Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 14 at 12:51pm
[Ok not the OP question but you have been down a winding road]

How does the tide affect a sailing craft?

The answer is so so simple.

TIDES GO UP, THEN THEY GO DOWN.

So when the tide is rising the craft is going uphill - SLOW
When the tide is falling the craft is going downhill - FAST
And guess what, it applies in any direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 14 at 1:04pm
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