Rule 46 person in charge

   Rule 46 requires having a person in charge on board, when capsized, or holding the boat from alongside there is no person in charge on board, does this boat break the rules?

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davidyacht Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345	Post Options Post Reply Quote davidyacht Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Rule 46 person in charge Posted: 11 Dec 13 at 10:26pm
	Rule 46 requires having a person in charge on board, when capsized, or holding the boat from alongside there is no person in charge on board, does this boat break the rules?

gordon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037	Post Options Post Reply Quote gordon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 13 at 7:29am
	I would have thought that rule 47.2 applies. Any crew member must be back on board before the boat continues in the race. If the person in charge falls overboard a person still on board would probably be considered as temporarily in charge (if the issue ever arose) It is a moot point whether a crew member holding the boat to "anchor" it has "left"the boat
	Gordon

Presuming Ed Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641	Post Options Post Reply Quote Presuming Ed Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 13 at 7:53am
	Are you "on board" if you're trapping off the side of the boat?

Brass Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brass Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 13 at 8:34am
	This issue used to be Case #1. Why it was dropped I do not know. ISAF Q&A 2008-002 (since lapsed) dealt with the issue Question 2 With respect to the definition Finish, the Terminology paragraph of the Introduction and the second part of rule 47.2, does a capsized boat correctly finish if she crosses the finishing line when: a) all of the crew members are (somehow) on board even though the boat is capsized, b) some of the crew members are not on board but are very close to the boat and trying to straighten it out , and c) some of the crew members are not on board because they have become disconnected from the boat and its equipment, but are swimming to reach the capsized boat? Answer 2 Yes. It is normal for dinghies to capsize and therefore a capsized dinghy and its crew in the water are in a normal position. It follows that a boat finishes correctly in all of the conditions stated in the question. Also, the boat does not break rule 47.2 while the crew are making all reasonable attempts to recover the boat and get back on board provided they are not making any attempt to progress the position of the boat in the race. If they attempt to ‘swim’ the boat across the finishing line, they would break both rule 47.2 and rule 42.1, and possibly rule 2.

davidyacht Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345	Post Options Post Reply Quote davidyacht Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 13 at 3:12pm
	Why do we have rules that are next to each other, yet contradict themselves ... and why do we have to refer to Appeals cases in order to decipher the rule book ... it is no wonder that our sport is inaccessible! God I I begining to sound like a man from Folkestone!

gordon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037	Post Options Post Reply Quote gordon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 13 at 3:43pm
	I am not convinced that the rules do contradict themselves. Rule 46 says that a person on board must be designated as being in charge. Rule 47.2 makes it clear that if any person leaves the boat by accident or to swim (both apply when a boat capsizes) they must be back on board before the boat continues to race. As for the interpretations - there are very few that arrive at a conclusion that contradict a careful reading of the rules. However, they do provide consistency, and tend to avoid rules being interpreted differently in different countires If only rugby, for instance, could acheive a similar consistency of interpretation - refereeing of the breakdown being a good example.
	Gordon

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 13 at 6:31pm
	I guess sailing is a complex passtime, with many different ways of boats meeting or going round a course, therefore the rules have to be equally complex to meet every situation. There is an internal logic to the rules, but it does take a lot of time of the water and racing to really get to grips with what they are on about sometimes. Just reading them without the experience won't really help. Best bet is to have a set in your sailing kit, and when something happens on the water tht you don't get, take a good look at the rules, and maybe discuss it with more experienced sailors. Chances are they will have different views on it, and will be equally interested in the permutations. Certainly seems to be the case on here. I'd love the rules to be more simple, but I thik too many loopholes would creep in, and people would use them to gain unfair advantage.
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