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No big events in youth boats/more Swallows&Amazons |
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JimC 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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 Topic: No big events in youth boats/more Swallows&AmazonsPosted: 24 Jan 12 at 6:05pm |
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This is something I've been wondering about for a while, indeed I've said as much elsewhere, but Dan Holmans "more Swallows and Amazons" aside got me as far as posting as a topic.
What good do these huge youth Nationals and even youth class worlds actually do? Sure its great training for the one sailor in ten thousand who goes on to sail at the Olympics, but frabnkly, so b*****y what... Supposing:- 1) All international competition for U18s was prohibited 2) National Championships with more than say 60 entries were prohibited, and the event has to be split down into regional events, all the regional events the same week and no entries from outside the region. I reckon we's see the following benefits. - without the events being sch a big deal then - - parental egos would be diminished, - - less pressure - - more fun - - less cost escalation - - fewer "Oppie parents" and their equivalent in other classes. - no getting to 18 having - - compete in the biggest Championships you'll ever do - - done three world championships in different continents - - been there, done that and got all the T shiorts - - nothing left new to achieve and no new experiences to come Flame away... |
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Rupert
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 24 Jan 12 at 6:19pm |
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Imagine the ISAF doing that... nope, sadly, I can't. And the RYA would never go it alone because it might stop them finding the next Ben, never mind that it puts hundreds more off sailing for life.
Luckily, some individual clubs DO realize that sailing is supposed to be fun, and that different children enjoy different aspects of the sport.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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rogue
Really should get out more
Joined: 04 Dec 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 978 |
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Posted: 24 Jan 12 at 6:23pm |
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You're right Jim, but turkeys don't vote for Christmas and having a nice new Volvo to drive to your lifestyle job in the Hamble is quite nice thank you....
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rb_stretch
Really should get out more
Joined: 23 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 742 |
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Posted: 24 Jan 12 at 8:13pm |
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Have to say when I was first introduced to sailing at 10 years old I only ever entered the odd race, with no real clue as to proper sail trim, race tactics or wind/tide effect. Most of my time was larking about in a Mirror with friends and family. I only really learnt about sail trim and tactics in a keelboat 20 years later (although 17 years of windsurfing did give me a feel for speed and apparent wind). Another ten years after than I'm learning how to handle a traditional dinghy properly (still haven't even got a roll tack sorted).
So much to learn in so many areas of sailing, it can keep you going for a lifetime. |
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Posted: 24 Jan 12 at 8:24pm |
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Jim, I can't help thinking you've overlooked one particularly important thing.
Have you asked any of those sailors/ex sailors, now in their 20s, if they regret the racing and training they did? If they look back with fond memories but have decided sailing just isn't for them, then is it fair to decided that that type of training and racing should be stopped? Naturally there's always disgruntled people who believe the sailing world treated them unfairly blah blah blah but i personally think that that's their inability to accept the fact that life doesn't play out by what we do and don't want. The parents issue I do believe is a problem but nothing that doesn't exist in every other sport in the world. No matter kids are doing and at what level they're doing it at, there will always be psycho parents. Luckily they appear to be far outweighed by fantastic, calm and supportive parents. Doug H
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Hughph
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 13 Oct 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 324 |
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Posted: 24 Jan 12 at 8:33pm |
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Well has it not occurred that people enjoy competitive racing? (And by competitive racing I don't mean your local open meeting) with big fleets and tough competition? I certainly do, as do most of the people I know doing it, which is why them and their parents go to these events. Also, I find that there is some national pride in having such a strong country for sailing at the Olympics- why does that seem to be so repulsive to you that there are elite sportsmen?
Right, Youth sailing is probably the best time to do these kind of events as what time in your life (excluding retirement) do you have more time off? I can't think of many professions where you get as much time off as you do whilst in school? And why is having more than 60 people at a nationals a bad thing? I for one enjoy having 80 boats+ on a start line and makes everything that much more interesting and fun. Personally, and I'm sure this is the same for alot (I know not all) of other sailors, that racing competitively and at that level IS fun already, and to have that pressure to perform with a clear goal at the end of it only adds to it. From my experience very few of the parents in youth classes (and I know oppies can be an exception) are pushy parents- they just support their kids the best they can, and very few make them do what they don't want to. Has it not occurred to you that we want to be doing this and it is OUR choice?
And what is exactly wrong with having traveled to international competitions? It is probably a great maturing experience for sailors. And as to having the done the biggest championships ever or been there done that- I find I can do something once and still want to go and do it again. There is also plenty of big fleet championship racing for adults- consider the 505, Fireball, Finn and dare i say it the Laser with the popular master and grand masters racing? I am sure once I reach 18, and if I am lucky enough to do a worlds, I will find that there are still plenty of new experiences to be had from sailing- that's what makes the sport so attractive and exciting for me- just because I have done some big championships it doesn't mean that I will fall off the wagon and never want to do anything smaller again? This has really come across as a rant at the way youth sailing has developed but when it comes down to it, it has developed the way it has because that's what there has been the most demand for- it's simple economics. Ultimately, in conclusion, it is OUR choice as to what attitude to take to sailing, and what we go and do- so just because it doesn't suit you it does not mean it is bad, or wrong. There is less pushiness than you think and being able to go out and take some competitiveness to things which encourage it, is great and people can be competitive and have FUN whilst doing it. This forum usually has some great stuff on it- when I first joined I remember finding this a treasure trove of helpful information and encouragement- and it is a shame people feel the need to bring it down like this with the constant b****ing and snide comments. People can be incredibly useful on here and it is a shame it has been diluted with crap like this... I've normally just bitten my tongue and held back when I see this kind of posting- but this one really takes the biscuit. Sorry but this needed to be said. Seriously, whats the problem with freedom of choice in the sport I love? PHS Edited by Hughph - 24 Jan 12 at 9:00pm |
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Hughph
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 13 Oct 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 324 |
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Posted: 24 Jan 12 at 8:34pm |
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This is really the short and less ranty version of what I'm trying to say. +1
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Posted: 24 Jan 12 at 8:50pm |
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Hughph, I think you've misunderstood JimC a bit.
I can assure you what he's posted is in no way meant to be spiteful or against youth sailors. It is quite sad to look back at a set of results such as the 2002 topper nationals, and see that maybe 5-10 out of the 200+ are the only ones still sailing. That's the problem. I know a lot of very enthusiastic young sailors, who love sailing more than anything, and history says to me that most of them will drop out. I think JimC and many others would rather see MORE sailors, especially the young ones out on the water.
Edited by Doug.H - 24 Jan 12 at 8:52pm |
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Ginge
Posting king 
Joined: 28 Dec 11 Location: Isle Of Axholme, Doncaster Online Status: Offline Posts: 117 |
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Posted: 24 Jan 12 at 8:54pm |
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Youth racing may put the odd one or two off sailing, but in most cases it will get them hooked for life, I'm talking of my own experience and of many people I know. And you need young competitive sailors to come through aswell cos you need as much time on the water as possible, to be the best you can, and that's where we get of champions from.
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Laser
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themeaningoflife
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 06 May 11 Location: Essex/ Kent Online Status: Offline Posts: 212 |
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Posted: 24 Jan 12 at 9:00pm |
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i would just like to quickly point out that the majority of young sailors are those participating in cadet weeks and muck around events at clubs. Only the minority choose to start racing, after they find they have exceeded a level beyond that of their peers. I know that without racing I would probably be playing football, rugby and computer games instead of anything. I agree that a strong 'grass-roots' level of sailing needs to be encouraged, but not to the detriment of racing, that everyone who participates enjoys. How many sports can you name that are entirely un-competitive?
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