Best 2 person small pond class?

   I'm about to forgo the joys of sailing singlehanded to start sailing
with my kids. Now I'm pretty competitive in a Laser on the small pond I
sail on, but I can't for the life of me think of anything that meets
the following:

    -2 person boat to take a crew weight of around 19-20 stone

    -Low maintenance, ie not wood!

    -Reasonably quick, yes I'm going to be sailing with kids (under 10) so I don't

     want a rocket ship but I'd ideally like to be up with the Laser still

    -My pond is small with plenty of shallow bits and overhanging trees!

    -Likely to sail to PY given the above

Oh and my budget precludes buying new, guess I'm looking at £1500 or under.

I know I should buy a boat thats sailed at my club already, but the
only class that half meets me requirement is the Ent which to be honest
I've never really got on with.

What do people think?

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TonyL Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 28 Jun 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 57	Post Options Post Reply Quote TonyL Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Best 2 person small pond class? Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 5:39pm
	I'm about to forgo the joys of sailing singlehanded to start sailing with my kids. Now I'm pretty competitive in a Laser on the small pond I sail on, but I can't for the life of me think of anything that meets the following: -2 person boat to take a crew weight of around 19-20 stone -Low maintenance, ie not wood! -Reasonably quick, yes I'm going to be sailing with kids (under 10) so I don't want a rocket ship but I'd ideally like to be up with the Laser still -My pond is small with plenty of shallow bits and overhanging trees! -Likely to sail to PY given the above Oh and my budget precludes buying new, guess I'm looking at £1500 or under. I know I should buy a boat thats sailed at my club already, but the only class that half meets me requirement is the Ent which to be honest I've never really got on with. What do people think?

Contender443 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 01 Oct 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1211	Post Options Post Reply Quote Contender443 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 5:54pm
	Laser 2000(probablly out of your budget) or all glass Miracle/Mirror if you can find one.
	Bonnie Lass Contender 1764

Mike278 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 09 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 256	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike278 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 6:23pm
	I sail on a small puddle (8 acres), and the ents and national 12' s are always the boats to beat
	Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

kasey3000 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 06 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 401	Post Options Post Reply Quote kasey3000 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 6:37pm
	Get a Kestrel.... The optimum crew weight is 146kg, but I have been competitively racing in one since I was 11 years old!...and the person who I sailed with was 10 stone...our weight together was 18 stone. They are £5000 new, but there are older ones (which are still sometimes quicker than the new ones!) which you can pick up for a few hundred quid. Check out http://www.kestrel.org.uk and there is a second-hand list available if you want to check it out.. The PY is 1038, so reasonably quick but not so fast you can't manage with kids...like I say I have been racing them since I was 11. I race at Lakeside SC, in Peterborough, which is 75acres and we have a Kestrel open once a year....which usually has 10-15 boats, and they fit on it with no trouble....so they are fine on small lakes! You can stick a trapeze on them if you want to teach your kids how to use one, but the trapeze is not allowed for racing in opens. They have a symmetric kite which has power in it, but it's not overpowering! They were only ever made in GRP and the new ones, since about number 1520 or there-abouts, are part FRP - part GRP. They are a great boat and they are on the up, a very friendly racing circuit if you want to come on the opens! They have a good fleet of Kestrels at Little Paxton SC, which is full of islands, trees and all sorts of things....and they find the Kestrel is great! PM me if you want any more info! Kasey.
	49er 908

tgruitt Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 02 Dec 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2479	Post Options Post Reply Quote tgruitt Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 7:06pm
	apparantly kestrels are quite good! N12's or merlins are the way forward on a small pond
	Needs to sail more...

TonyL Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 28 Jun 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 57	Post Options Post Reply Quote TonyL Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 7:13pm
	Thanks for the replies. The Kestrel is also something I'd thought of as there's a couple of older ones at my club that seem to go pretty well. Mega value boats too. Nat12 isn't something I'd thought of, wouldn't think I could get a club competitive glass 12 for my budget? I've seen the odd glass Miracle for £1500 so that or the Kestrel are heading my shortlist at present, though after sailing cramped singlehanders for so long I like the idea of a roomy boat so the Kestrel it might be. Kasey3000, what sort of budget/sail number etc should I be looking for in a decent club level Kestrel?

Phil eltringham Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: England/Hitchin Online Status: Offline Posts: 1105	Post Options Post Reply Quote Phil eltringham Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 7:52pm
	Miracle, Kestrel (as mentioned before) or Enterprise are probably your best bet, or if your budget could strech RS200 maybe.
	FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen

KnightMare Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 08 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1682	Post Options Post Reply Quote KnightMare Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 9:18pm
	RS200 was the first thing that sprang to mind when i read that, but Im not to sure if you could get a nice one for your budget. if your lucky and you see one BUY IT. the chances are if you didnt get on with it you could actualy sell it on for more. they are great boats and easy for kids to learn in, but do have a look at the other boats mentioned since their price ranges might be slightly better.


kasey3000 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 06 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 401	Post Options Post Reply Quote kasey3000 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 11:12pm
	The Kestrel has been made for around 50 years now, and has been produced by several boat builders and come out of several moulds! For a Kestrel the most important things are the mast, centreboard and sails....after that it's hull weight, smoothness of the hull and sailing ability! If you buy a Kestrel, make sure it has an aluminium centreboard....NOT steel!.....the steel ones are awful!...and aluminium ones are about £300 new, so if you can get an old kestrel with one you'll be getting a good one! Try and get a silver mast, not a gold one....the spreaders will snap the mast in anything above a F4 with sails other than terylene! I wouldn't recommend hull numbers between 750ish and 1300ish....cos the mould was awful and all the boats are soft.The best numbers for older boats is from 300ish up to 750ish....and then from 1400 onwards. The fastest 2 kestrels I know of are 668 and 1460. I used to race 668, and it was 3rd at the nats in 2002. Sails.....P&B, hyde, rush are all excellent....there are a few other suits that the Kestrel can have, but I don't have personal experience with them....so I would really just recommend the above! Look for boats that have the original gelcoat...they will probably be lighter!....watch out for lots of paint on the floor....it usually means heavy boats or lots of cracks in older kestrels. If you can find a boat with an outboard sheeted genoa then that would be excellent for a small lake race!....if you cant fly a kite....the genoa is just as quick downwind as the kite in less than a F2......but above that somone small will struggle to pull it in!...so an inboard sheeted jib would then be handy! Hull smoothness is important but not really major unless you want to win the nats!.....don't buy hulls that when you press the hull it bends like rubber...it has to be quite tough or it will bend upwind in above a F3....which is slow, makes the flow of water unbalanced...which is v.v.v slow! If you want any more info...just port the questions and I'll do my best to answer! Kasey. P.S....thank u for ur input TomG - Dear...but may I point out that Kestrels are still quicker than N12's .....and we still beat the Merlins's downwind at Rutland this year....haha
	49er 908

redback Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502	Post Options Post Reply Quote redback Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jul 05 at 7:28pm
	Sailing up to your yardstick is difficult on a small pond especially if you have a spinnaker. So what about a Graduate? Lighter and more nimble than an Ent and a demon boat upwind, good in light winds too.