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If an RS300 is so good... |
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rb_stretch 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 23 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 742 |
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 Topic: If an RS300 is so good...Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 9:04am |
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...why isn't RS selling more of them?
Keeping reading on these Fora that RS300s are so rewarding to sail, but mystified why RS isn't therefore selling more of them. Having recently been in the position to consider one, I was put off by the apparent lack of support for the class. For instance I find the RS Class Association sites very poor at introducing someone to the class - not user friendly, no quality content etc... Anyway that is why I went for a Phantom which is also a great boat to sail (can't say if it's better or worse, cause I haven't sailed a 300), but feels like a really active class cause of the site and the helpfullness of class members in getting people into the class. Any other thoughts? |
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chrisg
Really should get out more
Joined: 23 Mar 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 893 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 9:19am |
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I think it's true to say RS probably don't push the 300 very hard. And like you say I don't really understand why. But then other than the RS100 do they really push any of their products. If you sail you generally have heard of the brand and know what they do/sell.
However, if you need anything for a 300, or perhaps even wanted to buy a new one they would be very accommodating, although I think they only build in batches so you may have to wait until another few people wanted one at the same time. I believe RS just announced recently that another batch will be built soon. I also think it was marketed slightly wrongly to begin with. I think it was pushed as an alternative to a laser. A few people bought them and realised it is a little bit trickier than a laser to get the best out of (I'm not saying its difficult to get a 300 round a course but it is to do it quickly). It took a few years but gradually people realised what makes the boat tick and when you do get the hang of it it is a very rewarding boat to sail. I won't say its any better than any other type of boat, just slightly different and does take a bit of getting used to. They have their quirks. Second hand boats are very thin on the ground with only 220 approx having been built. However if you know where to look the class can sometimes come up with one for you. The class isnt too bad, pretty friendly, but it seems most of the events are generally sorted out by a core bunch of very enthusiastic guys with the RS-Association riding off the back of that seemingly not having much input at all. I've certainly never knowingly really gained anything from the RS-Association and they actually seemed intent on putting up barriers when the class were discussing sail options (the reason I am no longer a member). Luckily it looked like they got overridden by LDC who developed the new black sail with, I believe, input from the then class chairman Steve Bolland. The nes sail has the same performance but is just made from a different, more readily available sail cloth (read cheaper) after demand from the sailors to push the price down. Did you find the yahoo group? That can be an enormous asset with a large amount of knowledge and help available from like minded keen 300 sailors at the click of a button. You obviously have your phantom now so happy sailing! If you ever consider a 300 again get in touch on the yahoo board and I'm sure someone will be able to point you in the right direction! Edited by chrisg - 19 Feb 11 at 9:27am |
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Ruscoe
Really should get out more
Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 9:45am |
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The 300 is a very active class, the message board is as active as most. There was a separate rs300.org website that ran for years, but the web master moved over to moths and i took the reigns. 6 months or so later the server crashed, despite asking it never really got up and going again. The 300 is a really, really great boat to sail. its very rewarding and challenging. Unfortunately the class is no longer really supported by LDC, IMHO the class should really try and escape its grips and look for another builder but that ain't gonna happen. I tried really hard last year to help find some used boats, we managed to uncover about 6 boats. I put a list together for the dinghy show unfortunately when i turned up for my stint at the show all of the printed material we made specifically for the class had gone, apparently LDC had binned it as they didn't want us pushing used boats. Which is stupid and frankly shows poor business sense as the person in the market for a £3k rs300 ain't in the market for a £8k RS100, however the person buying a £3k SMOD will be in the market for new sails, booms, foils etc. Generating far more reciprical business at (i guess) greater margins. The following argument was the last straw for me and i sold my boat shortly afterwards and bought a Phantom (which i sold shortly after as i found it a little sedate). Its a real shame as i firmly believe if RS offered the 300 and marketed it properly it would sell in reasonable numbers. However this is never going to happen, they will build you one if you find 5 other like minded mates.
Its a real shame as it really is one of their better boats.
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Bryn_14
Posting king 
Joined: 26 Nov 10 Location: GB Online Status: Offline Posts: 113 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 10:02am |
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It's such a shame that Rs has all but abandoned the class, I really can't understand why? I've just spent about 5 months trying to find a used boat and the class members have been nothing if not very helpful and they all seem genuinly nice people. Theres one for sale on boats and outboards (see rs300 wanted thread) which looks like an allright boat but still, I really don't understand Rs's thinking behind it?
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KeithF
Groupie 
Joined: 29 Jul 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 44 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 10:47am |
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Having bought a 300 when they first came out and kept it for four years, I have to say it's the worst boat I've ever owned. I found sailing it on the east coast with the short chop difficult in any sort of breeze, something which never proved a problem with my previous RS600s. Having said that 10knts of wind and flat water and the ride was awesome, so had I been sailing inland I'm sure my opinion would have been different. I think that they are best described as a 'niche' boat and now have all probably found the right homes. I guess this is why the support is somewhat limited - a shame as the quality of construction is excellent.
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Keith - Finn GBR63
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 12:02pm |
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Which sells more - a Ford or a Caterham? Which is better to drive? Sales figures are certainly the indicator of popularity, but its not much of an indicator of whether a boat is good or not, and that in turn begs the question of what *is* "good". The RS300 in my opinion is a super boat to sail, but I think RS were somewhat optimistic in thinking it would end up as a truly mass market boat. Mind you it was designed and introduced in the days when people still thought performance was a route into popularity... |
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Inland sea
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 19 Jul 07 Location: Rugby Online Status: Offline Posts: 290 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 1:03pm |
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Good question Rb and it has frustrated me. Ironically the boats worst enemy is itself. It is sooooo strong and robust, 10 year old boats+ are still competitive. Boat 328 must be 1998 ish and still wins open meetings. What other boat can say that? When we were going through the sail development program I have to say that LDC were really supportive and took the comments made by all sailors well, and now the sail is reinforced in the right places to make sure it lasts. All we need from them now is more boats available at sensible prices. Logically the development costs must have been absorbed now so is there any mileage in being able to promote the class with a reduced retail? IMHO I agree with Chris G and don't really feel like I get value for money but as I like to sail the opens and nationals have to be a member. I have organised many 300 events and have only felt disappointed with the class association support. The short sited approach to the used boat list, that Ruscoe had to deal with was yet another disappointment. Coming back to the boat I feal your pain Keith, chop grrr, but both Steve Fisher and Steve Bolland were in a class of their own in the Torquay chop. There seems to be a technique (that I can't do that’s for sure ) to get the 300 to work well in chop. Inland the boat is great your right but don't feel the niche comment fair. Why? In waves this boat is simply stunning. I don't think any one came off the water without a smile after the Prestwick Nationals, wonderful waves and the boat not only rides them upwind but has the ability to punch through the top if its a real biggy. As for down hill ... game on ... by the lee to catch any wave, then you can come back onto a reach and surf the wave for ever. The oversized rudder really helps here and as long as you keep it relatively flat you never run out of control, unlike other boats with small rudders. When the wind gets up you fly off the tops, simply stunning! I have never owned a boat that keeps me coming back for more. Fully powered up in a f2-3 and capable (just) of racing in 25 knots plus. The comment that was made about Nick Craig sailing in silly winds in his OK so you can race in 25knts+ really rang true, and only quality built boats can take this sort of punishment. To quote Steve Cockerill "It is the first boat I have ever sailed that is a joy just to sail around the course... let alone race." And this is why the class is so full of happy sailors we come off the water grinning from ear to ear. (Great article here) Don't get me wrong it does have quirks and you really do need to serve a wet apprentiship to 'get' the full reward, but the reward is sooo worth the effort. I just wish we could get all of the dormant boats out on the circuit and used more. |
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RS300 426 18' SkiffTango Musto 051
B14 644 |
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Bryn_14
Posting king
Joined: 26 Nov 10 Location: GB Online Status: Offline Posts: 113 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 6:04pm |
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Well I've just collected mine today, the current plan is to aim for the Oxford open in april, even if I am bringing up the rear!
On a separate unrelated note do I have to become a CA member to do said opens/nationals, if so where can I sign up?
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MikeBz
Really should get out more
Joined: 21 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 6:31pm |
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Very well put Jim. That's why I have an RS300 outside the garage and a Caterham in it
 The 300 gets a lot more use these days, although with the rate my body seems to be giving up that might have to change.I think they are a very narrow niche boat in the sense that they're very hard to sail, harder than anything else I have sailed (I spent 10 years solid sailing I14s and 18s), so they will never be a big fleet.
I don't think it's fair to say that LDC have abandoned the 300. When SMODs aren't interested in a class any more they drop it completely and that hasn't happened. A new batch is being built shortly, but of course there's no point in building boats which won't sell. Maybe they perhaps could/should push it a bit although generally they only push boats early on and let them find their own way after that. If it weren't for the small happy band of dedicated owners then I think the class would have died, but - how many other small classes can you say the same for, plenty I think.
Mike
Mike
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FireballNeil
Really should get out more
Joined: 03 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 654 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 6:34pm |
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I have to say I thought it sailed brilliantly when I hopped into one and had a go, and despite being pretty light would be very tempted to get one if I were still sailing at Draycote every week!
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Neil
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