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Windward/leeward right of way

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Poll Question: Is there a case for changing the rule to leeward boat keeps clear?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [2.78%]
68 [94.44%]
1 [1.39%]
1 [1.39%]
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Steve411 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Windward/leeward right of way
    Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 3:58pm
I don't sail an asymmetric, so I don't have a vested interest, but in the interests of safety is there a case in giving the windward boat (boat coming downwind) right of way over a leeward boat (boat going upwind), i.e. a complete reversal of the current rule? And should this further extend to taking precedence over port/starboard?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by Steve411

I don't sail an asymmetric, so I don't have a vested interest, but in the interests of safety is there a case in giving the windward boat (boat coming downwind) right of way over a leeward boat (boat going upwind), i.e. a complete reversal of the current rule? And should this further extend to taking precedence over port/starboard?
 
The last option should have read - 'As a change to the RRS where different boats share a course'.
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Oli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 4:12pm
we had an incident last year where the upwind boat coming downwind on starboard hit the downwind boat coming upwind on port. cant remember the outcome except for some expensive holes in both boats.  as for the ruling all boats should avoid hitting each other anyway, so to your question the boat that has clear visability and can make a good educated guess that the other person cant see or has no time to manouver etc should avoid and or protest depending on the circumstances.

Edited by slop_idol - 01 Feb 11 at 4:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote asterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 4:12pm
well I can imagine there would be a deal of carnage for a few years after the rule change (people still shout 'you're in my water' and 'mast abeam' etc)
 
and redoing the rules might be quite challenging as well
 
e.g. would a fast windward boat have rights over a slower leeward boat approaching the leeward mark?


Edited by asterix - 01 Feb 11 at 4:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 4:20pm
Nothing wrong with the rule. I raced Ospreys for many years. You just made sure you kept your wits about you when running in light winds. Even with the spinnaker flying low you can see if you really want to. Changing the rules for the sake of a few sub-standard helms and crews is not the answer.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AndrewLB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 5:34pm
it's interesting that the issue came up this weekend as there's a forum taking place on saturday to discuss the whole issue of integrating foilers & asymmetrics with other boats in Chichester Harbour.

the rule is fine as it is and works well because of its simplicity and universality, irrespective of the classes involved. the issue is awareness. the boats coming downwind stay alert and ensure that they keep a good eye out, it doesn't matter how awesome, flashy and important your boat is, you still probably don't have right of way so look out. but, as has been said above, the boat going upwind needs to stay alert as well. they need to be aware of where the other boats are.

when i had my 700 (good grief, 9 years ago now!) it was absolutely terrifying going downwind with the kite up during HISC club racing. frequently you'd be trying to navigate your way down a relatively tight channel, trying your best to sneak a peek under the kite, when all of a sudden you would hear a muffled cry of "windward boat". as you slid into the cockpit to look under the kite again you'd suddenly see a whole wall of solos coming towards you at a range of about 4 boatlengths!!! to a solo it was entirely possible for us to react and gybe out of the way in a couple of boatlengths, they could so why couldn't we? oh, and the chaos with people who have no/little appreciation of just how much a skiff changes direction when under the kite is scary. it's not just W/L, it's all over the place, they think they've moved out of the way but they've just put themselves in more danger, always go above the asymmetric, never below! by sunday evening your nerves would be completely shredded  Dead. so far the 100 seems much easier, gybing is less of a procedure and the visibility is notably improved. 

as much as the primary responsibility is with the spinnaker boat to keep an eye out, there is as much need to educate other boats about the concept of how some of these 'extreme' boats operate. to paraphrase the old saying "Shout early, shout often!"

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 5:40pm
I don't see any reason for changing the rule, although i do think it is necessary for the windward boat to call if they think collision is a close call

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iwsmithuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 6:48pm
Fast asymmetrics are dangerous, full stop.
 
I know of no other field of recreation where it is accepted that you can career about amongst the water using general public in a fast heavy craft accepting that for a significant amount of time you have limited directional control and limited visibility!
 
It's an accident waiting to happen. I don't know what the answer is. In my own case I have chosen not to continue to sail a fast asymmetric.
 
Rule changes will make no difference where you are sailing on open water with a variety of other water users who are not racing, do not know the right of way rules, and do not know what to expect from high performance asymmetric dinghies.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by iwsmithuk

Fast asymmetrics are dangerous, full stop.
  
I was bitten by one in the boatpark just the other day...
 
Would some perspective not be useful here? Compared to a speedboat doing 50 knots driven by someone with no clue how to steer, they really are pretty safe. Compared to a jet ski going off a bathing beach they are, too. Pretty safe compared to a kitesurfer jumping a pier, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 8:00pm
We need to remember its everyone's responsibility to avoid collisions, a bit of give and take and everyone keeping the best lookout they can.

I wouldn't change the rules, the people who it would most apply to wouldn't know the new rule and cause chaos. 
Garry

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